Countdown from £28k...

mothsinmywallet_2

How long have you been paying rent? How long have you been there for? It sounds utterly awful all round. I'm wondering if actually doing the sums might help you to feel secure to say no to the woodburner and any other p1ss taking requests. 

ryanm8655

Sarahwithlove said:

Maybe you need to sit down and discuss it with them and agree to either carry on paying for things for them or paying rent. But it does sound like it's time for you to move out tbh. How long do you think it will be before you're back in offices in london? Could you do a short term lease somewhere outside of London for a bit if the rent will be cheaper? 

Discussion would be the sensible thing but we’re not really that sort of family, ha. Was awkward enough when there was a family intervention re: the bullying. 

The office is open now, just that it’s voluntary whether you go in or not and you have to book. I’d imagine it’ll be a longtime before we have to go back.

Short term lease down here is something I’ve considered as a compromise but rents are so depressed in central London, I’m keen to take advantage before they go up again but reckon I’ve got until March. Would be less upfront costs though, so less saving time. Could get a really nice place in a nearby city for about £700 per month, around here I could get a flat for less. If I could find a furnished place for a few months then that would be ideal. May look as would soften the transition for family as well. I’d still be nearby to help out and wouldn’t have just run off to London as soon as debts were gone.

Will give it some thought.

ryanm8655

mothsinmywallet_2 said:

How long have you been paying rent? How long have you been there for? It sounds utterly awful all round. I'm wondering if actually doing the sums might help you to feel secure to say no to the woodburner and any other p1ss taking requests. 

I’ve been here since the debt clearing began in August last year, so about 15/16 months all in. Not sure when I started paying rent, I have a feeling it was during the first lockdown as I remember getting a text saying they hadn’t managed to save anything the previous month and would I mind paying rent and remember being out on a drive as that was all I could do. I can check my bank account. Though around that time I was spending £600-700 on the groceries and little shops. I immediately cut that back with the rent (had to for my budget) but have spent on average £50/60 a week on groceries, since. I did try to limit it to that to meet my debt clearance targets. Another occasion I remember is when I gave family member my credit card to pay for the few bits they were popping in to buy. Came out with a full weeks shopping and destroyed my budget. Thought that was a bit rude but also understood I wasn’t paying rent then. But those give an inch take a mile situations often happen. Even with housework, if I’m hoovering it’s “oh I’ll get you the polish as well”  

Though when I first moved here was when the health issues were bad, so I did a lot more to pull my weight then as one adult was completely out of action so I had to step up. Admittedly once they were back to full fitness I stepped back a bit (I.e. wasn’t cooking dinner so much) but only to avoid stepping on toes. Again, I stopped helping out a bit in evenings when I first started the new job but I was snowed under (I’d still wash up etc), also I recognised that and started taking a couple of hours off around dinner time as of a few weeks ago.

I’ve always had in mind that I would give them a lump sum when I left too. Not loads, just £500 towards a family holiday or something but with my plans coinciding with Christmas I thought I’d put the money into thoughtful things instead, like annual passes for attractions etc. Maybe I’ll just give them cash and let them do what they want with it.

Edit: just checked and I haven’t been paying rent for as long as I thought, only 5 months. That shows how much time was dragging before I started this job. Though, as I say, did buy more groceries etc. Before then.

There are also other small things I’ve paid for like a tv subscription at £100/year. They’ve got my pricey pans and firestick etc. Even some art I bought is on their wall and I’ll never get it back ha. But it’s all stuff I’ve written off as needing to buy again once I have my own place, which is also on my mind in terms of the amount I need to save.

TheAble

I haven't read much of your diary so don't really know all the background but I just thought I'd give a brief opinion that I think it's deeply wrong for your family to ask you to buy them a log burner or any other such ridiculousness for Christmas. Once you're not a child any more, asking for/expecting "stuff" for Christmas is really not what the season is about - it's oft said but it's true. You're nearly out of debt after a long haul and it would be utterly crazy to put yourself back into it for this, and they should respect that. You've been living with them rent-free I understand but so what? Families help each other out with such acts of kindness and generosity - I'm sure you'd do the same for them if they were up against it.

Incidentally it's not just the cost - it's the stress of installation, and follow-up problems down the line etc. You definitely don't want that either. Their home improvements/modifications are their own business.

My advice would be to disabuse them of the notion that they'll be getting any such thing, and don't feel bad about it. It's a one-off, maybe slightly painful conversation but then that will be the end of it. I think your idea of a £500 thank you when you leave is a nice one - that's what I would do myself.

ryanm8655

TheAble said:

I haven't read much of your diary so don't really know all the background but I just thought I'd give a brief opinion that I think it's deeply wrong for your family to ask you to buy them a log burner or any other such ridiculousness for Christmas. Once you're not a child any more, asking for/expecting "stuff" for Christmas is really not what the season is about - it's oft said but it's true. You're nearly out of debt after a long haul and it would be utterly crazy to put yourself back into it for this, and they should respect that. You've been living with them rent-free I understand but so what? Families help each other out with such acts of kindness and generosity - I'm sure you'd do the same for them if they were up against it.

Incidentally it's not just the cost - it's the stress of installation, and follow-up problems down the line etc. You definitely don't want that either. Their home improvements/modifications are their own business.

My advice would be to disabuse them of the notion that they'll be getting any such thing, and don't feel bad about it. It's a one-off, maybe slightly painful conversation but then that will be the end of it. I think your idea of a £500 thank you when you leave is a nice one - that's what I would do myself.

Thanks for the reply.

The stress is a good point...things were already high stress before they decided to bring a puppy into the house and that has just upped the ante (as much as the puppy is loved). Having a big hole and mess in the living room doesn’t sound ideal.

Driving a family member to a hospital appointment tomorrow so I’ll raise it then, say I can’t afford it without going back into debt and I don’t want to do that again. Can give something towards it and see what they say.

I do wonder if it’s their own anxiety about another £2.5k being spent out of savings talking...Justifying it by thinking I owe them. They’ve sunk about £15k on car and dog recently.

alt80

100 agree with @TheAble. Tbh mate it sounds like a complete nightmare and unbelievably selfish of family to act in this way. If I were you I’d move out debt or no debt - have you worked out how long it would take you to clear the remaining £3.5k if you went back to London?

I can’t see how working in the kids playroom is helping you either or all this ferrying family members around - what are they going to do when you go? Just creating a cycle of dependence and a rod for your own back imo. Not gonna lie if a staff member came to me about this I’d be seriously concerned with productivity / likelihood for mistakes / stress etc. Dedicated workspace is 100 needed when working from home.

Seems to me they want a housekeeper/ chauffeur/ mug rather than to actually help you out - which you do for family. My in-laws are a !!!!!! nightmare mainly because my wife gives them war and peace about me but they 100 wouldn’t expect money/ us to ferry them about or clean their house for them. I have sent money to my parents during first covid lockdown so did my sister - they had no business and no real fallback, restaurant trade massively affected throughout the world. Things still not amazing for them but they offered to pay the money back to both my sister and I over summer when they managed to open. I’m in a !!!!!! position financially on the personal side but I didn’t accept their money, neither did my sister. So can’t save that month well my heart !!!!!! bleeds. FML - if that’s your family I dread to think what your enemies are like mate. Your uncle sounds like a bit of a n*b too tbh from the overview of the messages.

efes_shareholder

Just adding my pennies worth
Sounds like they see your upcoming debt free status as down to them and expect a "reward".
I live in a less then ideal setting , again with family - I contribute £400 a month (plus little extras ) and am really now only here a couple of times a week however I know my mum relies massively on that to help run the house and  I cost no where near that to keep. The bills on this house would be the same regardless of whether I was here or not. They are benefiting from you being there and contributing , your not on a free hand out.
Your contribution financially and in donkey work sounds more then generous in my opinion , it sounds like they have just now decided that since you are now in a much better position than when you arrive they feel also deserve to benefit from that and recieve some substantial gift.
I would just clearly say , I've allocated a budget for you at xmas and it won't pay for your log burner in its entirety but feel free to use it however you feel fit.
Don't pay for the xmas food , we have a full house at xmas and my sister and I contribute towards the additional expense- perhaps say in front of both of them , I;m going to add another £50 to my rent xmas week to help towards the additional expense - they would have to pay for xmas if you weren't there !!! 
Look to get out ASAP , I think you will much happier once you do and find much more peace and a better work/life balance.
Have you considered property gaurdianship in the short term ? A friend of mine id this for several years and although its a bit uncertain on length of stay etc , you can acquire living space at very reasonable costs in prime locations and may help you decide if you need/want to be in london or not
https://loweguardians.com/guardians/our-locations/
https://www.global-guardians.co.uk/guardian/search-properties
Your family sound ungrateful which I've experienced myself and slightly greedy
I am sure they will realise your contributions when you are no longer there helping them out at the drop of a hat.

stymied

What happened to their original pans? If they’re still there I think you can slip those back out. With the artwork, how about getting some canvasses printed of family photos and do a switch whilst making a big deal about how fabulous they look? £600-£700 a month on food seems like an awful lot! I’m glad we all agree that the wood burner is a bad idea.

enthusiasticsaver

I think expecting a log burner especially if it will cost £2500 is utterly ridiculous and I would put them straight that you cant afford it as you are saving up to move out.  It is none of their business as to whether you are debt free or not.  You have been living with a family, not in self contained accommodation so have had to sacrifice personal space but I appreciate with family it is not that easy to put that across.  If you are paying an agreed rent and contributing towards food that is enough. I think up to £500 is reasonable as an acknowledgement they have helped you out but I think if you want to move out then paying out for a log burner is off the table. Otherwise it means staying there longer which is obviously something you do not want to do. 

ryanm8655

Thanks for the replies all - have been manic with work so not been able to check in. All very helpful.

alt80 said:

100 agree with @TheAble. Tbh mate it sounds like a complete nightmare and unbelievably selfish of family to act in this way. If I were you I’d move out debt or no debt - have you worked out how long it would take you to clear the remaining £3.5k if you went back to London?

I can’t see how working in the kids playroom is helping you either or all this ferrying family members around - what are they going to do when you go? Just creating a cycle of dependence and a rod for your own back imo. Not gonna lie if a staff member came to me about this I’d be seriously concerned with productivity / likelihood for mistakes / stress etc. Dedicated workspace is 100 needed when working from home.

Seems to me they want a housekeeper/ chauffeur/ mug rather than to actually help you out - which you do for family. My in-laws are a !!!!!! nightmare mainly because my wife gives them war and peace about me but they 100 wouldn’t expect money/ us to ferry them about or clean their house for them. I have sent money to my parents during first covid lockdown so did my sister - they had no business and no real fallback, restaurant trade massively affected throughout the world. Things still not amazing for them but they offered to pay the money back to both my sister and I over summer when they managed to open. I’m in a !!!!!! position financially on the personal side but I didn’t accept their money, neither did my sister. So can’t save that month well my heart !!!!!! bleeds. FML - if that’s your family I dread to think what your enemies are like mate. Your uncle sounds like a bit of a n*b too tbh from the overview of the messages.

I haven't worked out the debt clearance if I move back tbh. But I'd imagine it wouldn't take much longer than a few months (as long as we were in lockdown still) Based on about £2k disposable a month and clearing a grand. 

Yeah, completely know what you mean. It's tough but I guess a lot of people have the same working from home with kids etc. It's the disruption when the kids get back/dinner is being cooked that's the worst. Then I work into the evening and get kicked out of the only work area at 9pm as that's where the puppy sleeps. So end up squatting over the bedside table trying to work. Had a meeting 4-5 today and got a bit of a sarcy comment about dinner stuff already being done, it was a joke but I do wonder how much of a joke it is but it's not like a meeting at 4 is unreasonable ha. I guess I could get up earlier but then would have the chaos of before school as a distraction (I tend to hide in bed before the screaming and shouting stops in the mornings ha) plus I need to be around for the whole work day as ad hoc stuff comes up all the time.

Haha! Yeah, I know what you mean. I can understand it from their point of view, I have been here a longtime. I am an adult and part of the family so should help out, I think that's fair enough. The driving thing was necessary as neither could drive due to health reasons at the time. It's just the digs and comments and being made to feel like I don't do anything to help out/made to feel guilty about my contribution. Certainly doesn't help that everyone is stressed. It's also little things like I'll be working at lunch, I'll stop to quickly wash up and then get a teatowel thrown at me to dry up as well and it's like...I am working... When I first moved in they were brilliant though, the family have been through the mill since then which has changed things and I don't think it would be so bad if there wasn't lockdown. In the earlier days they even said I'll have to stay until I save a house deposit

efes_shareholder said:

Just adding my pennies worth
Sounds like they see your upcoming debt free status as down to them and expect a "reward".
I live in a less then ideal setting , again with family - I contribute £400 a month (plus little extras ) and am really now only here a couple of times a week however I know my mum relies massively on that to help run the house and  I cost no where near that to keep. The bills on this house would be the same regardless of whether I was here or not. They are benefiting from you being there and contributing , your not on a free hand out.
Your contribution financially and in donkey work sounds more then generous in my opinion , it sounds like they have just now decided that since you are now in a much better position than when you arrive they feel also deserve to benefit from that and recieve some substantial gift.
I would just clearly say , I've allocated a budget for you at xmas and it won't pay for your log burner in its entirety but feel free to use it however you feel fit.
Don't pay for the xmas food , we have a full house at xmas and my sister and I contribute towards the additional expense- perhaps say in front of both of them , I;m going to add another £50 to my rent xmas week to help towards the additional expense - they would have to pay for xmas if you weren't there !!! 
Look to get out ASAP , I think you will much happier once you do and find much more peace and a better work/life balance.
Have you considered property gaurdianship in the short term ? A friend of mine id this for several years and although its a bit uncertain on length of stay etc , you can acquire living space at very reasonable costs in prime locations and may help you decide if you need/want to be in london or not
https://loweguardians.com/guardians/our-locations/
https://www.global-guardians.co.uk/guardian/search-properties
Your family sound ungrateful which I've experienced myself and slightly greedy
I am sure they will realise your contributions when you are no longer there helping them out at the drop of a hat.

I think you've hit the nail on the head, coupled with the fact they take for granted the things I do do and contribute. I'm not saying I'm cinderella or the perfect occupant but I do try to help out and am conscious of it, don't just laze around.

Great idea on the budget. That's exactly what I'll say. I've got a budget for Christmas and can't afford the log burner but can give you the money and it's upto you how you spend it. Fair point re: food, the extra money is a good idea. I usually buy all of the booze (that's what I did last year, also good because I get to pick the wine haha). Maybe offer to buy the turkey.

I think you're right re: moving out. Sometimes when I leave the house I feel a sense of relief and rush of endorphins, didn't even realise I needed to get out that badly. I think that's just lockdown though ha.

Interesting idea re: guardianship, I'll check it out.

Yeah, that's it. I have been a pain in the !!!!!! over the years, done plenty of silly things that have caused the family stress so I'm not saying I'm perfect. But I think I contribute more than they realise.

stymied said:

What happened to their original pans? If they’re still there I think you can slip those back out. With the artwork, how about getting some canvasses printed of family photos and do a switch whilst making a big deal about how fabulous they look? £600-£700 a month on food seems like an awful lot! I’m glad we all agree that the wood burner is a bad idea.

Well basically they were going to buy some more, so I said I had some in storage and to use those. So they've kinda become the pans now (not all of them but half of the set I guess I could get them some new, cheaper ones and swap them). The artwork I'm less bothered about, its not worth loads, one of my frivolous spends (was about £400) and not really worth anything to resell. Yeah! It's the 3 kids, they eat a lot...lots of cooking from fresh...baking etc. Plus always full of snacks etc. The weekly shop comes to about £120-£150 and then there are the top ups in between (never seen milk disappear so quickly, it used to go off when I lived on my own). At that point I was probably paying for most of the food, it was lockdown and food shopping got me out of the house, plus I wasn't paying rent. But they rarely eat out, usually take snacks/pack lunches when they do go out with the kids etc.

enthusiasticsaver said:

I think expecting a log burner especially if it will cost £2500 is utterly ridiculous and I would put them straight that you cant afford it as you are saving up to move out.  It is none of their business as to whether you are debt free or not.  You have been living with a family, not in self contained accommodation so have had to sacrifice personal space but I appreciate with family it is not that easy to put that across.  If you are paying an agreed rent and contributing towards food that is enough. I think up to £500 is reasonable as an acknowledgement they have helped you out but I think if you want to move out then paying out for a log burner is off the table. Otherwise it means staying there longer which is obviously something you do not want to do. 

Yeah, you've hit the nail on the head. That's what was stressing me out. It might as well be adding another month to my debt free date. I can't wait to have the funds in the bank just to move whenever. That'll be a weight lifted when I am in that position. I'll feel a lot more secure in myself knowing I am truly free.

Funnily enough the log burner comments have stopped...I'm wondering if my uncle has said something...will see how things go. (Either that or they read this diary, now that would be awks )

Payday in 5 days - will be a stretch to clear everything but I think I'm just going to go for it. Can put most Christmas spends on the Amex and pay in full next month anyway. And not like I'll be able to go to the pub with friends or have xmas parties to attend ha. Just need to have the cash left to cover DDs, which aren't very much.

Thanks again for all the words of wisdom and for helping me realise feeling guilty about not spending £2.5k wasn't necessary.