Countdown from £28k...

warby68

I think its just a stressed, busy house with everyone getting on each others' nerves.
So much in the mix, lockdowns, wfh, serious illness, space issues, 3 children plus family history/dynamics years in the making, not to mention a puppy. 
Said it before, in stressed or busy times, everyone thinks they do the most and, more to the point, that other people don't do enough or the right things. 
Often people gripe about small stuff or pick a scapegoat because there's nothing they can do about bigger problems.
Not sure if you're close enough to a town/city for day/short term serviced office rentals - looked into it for someone and you can get something nice here for £50/60 a day, much chesper if you take a week or a month. It might be worth working elsewhere a couple of days a week to relieve the pressure even with a bit of extra expense, Covid  restrictions permitting.
I think a cash gift on leaving would be nice and appropriate - the log burner was OTT. You've mentioned thoughtful gifts and doing lots of shopping but usually straight cash in hand has higher 'value' to some people. I'd give a couple of hundred towards Christmas plus regular gifts, someone said £50 Christmas week but that rang cheapskate bells for me.
Do the family know your rough plans for leaving? Might change the dynamic if they know you're moving out soon - not sure if it would be in a good or bad way though? I guess you can always say quite truthfully its the demands of the new job, you really need to get back to the City and have own space for unsociable hours, rather than right I'm off now my debts are gone.

purplehippo276

Oh my god Ryan, I have no idea how you have kept your cool. It sounds such a stressful living situation.

I find their demands completely unreasonable. It's not like you haven't been contributing to the household, both financially and practically. However, for the sake of family relations, could you buy them the stove itself, and leave the family to sort out/pay for the fitting? We have a log burner. Whilst the stove itself was relatively cheap (under £500), the fitting was not (over £1500), but if you buy the stove you're fulfilling the (frankly ridiculous) family expectations and it would be within your anticipated spend. 

You can get fancy high end stoves that cost A LOT, but we opted for Fire Fox  the exact same as this one: https://www.directstoves.com/firefox-5-1-multifuel-stove.html (Fire Fox 5 if the link doesn't work). It was under £500 and does the job perfectly, and looks pretty nice too. We've had ours for over five years now, and it's still going great - really recommend it as a great little stove.

Pop a bow on it and say Merry Christmas and get the hell out of there!  

enthusiasticsaver

Hopefully you will be able to clear the debt this month and next month apart from Christmas costs you can start to build some savings to move out. I think it is definitely time now for you to reclaim your own space and reset the relationship back to family you see every now and again rather than live with. It is a bit much to moan at you about not helping with dinner at 4pm. If you were working at the office presumably you would not even be there. I think they  forget or don't appreciate you are actually still working albeit at home. How much do you need as a deposit for the type of accommodation you want? Are you going for zone 1/2 or further out? 

ryanm8655

Thanks again for the replies. Had a bit of an epiphany today...empty house and I was ten times more productive. I had to be because the pressure was on to get a lot done but as soon as people got home I was surrounded by noise and whatever else and it was tough to think so clearly...that's a sign I definitely need to sort it out. The job will still be demanding but I reckon I wouldn't be working so late all the time if I could give it 100% focus. Right now is exceptionally busy as its a huge bill that will be going through soon that I am doing the work for and that is the nature of the beast (can probably figure out the policy area I work in). But more generally I think I do need my own space to be able to think and work uninterrupted. It is an intellectually challenging job at times, and you need a clear head to be able to analyse problem quickly.

Another factor has also contributed to my need to move ASAP. I am definitely being made the pantomine villain. The bullying happened again earlier from one of the parents on a child (those who read my diary will have heard about this before). It hasn't been that bad in ages, always gives him a hard time and is a bit harsher on him, speaks to him like he's dirt a lot of the time. There was a relatively minor but not particularly nice moment just prior. Shortly followed by a moment of genuine bullying. Essentially he doesn't like mayo all over his food, likes a blob that he'll dip chips in. I've witnessed her on numerous occassions ignore this to upset him. Hear shouting and he comes storming past in tears with mayonaisse all over his arm. The younger child gets involved and starts shouting at him too. (Basically what has happened is that he has covered the food he doesn't want mayo on with his hand and has then had it squirted all over him out of spite). So for the first time in a longtime I called it out, said it was horrible and to leave him alone. Other parent goes to get him to come back and tried to downplay it with him (in the past this would've been called out by them too but they seem to have gone into survival mode and just try and make things seem as nice as possible mode, which I can understand). But then I become the villain for sticking up for this child. The parent doing the comforting is blanking me at dinner and then makes a sarcastic comment about being glad that they made all that effort for a grumpy dinner table (aimed at me as everyone else was pretending nothing had happened and talking as normal). So somehow this whole thing has become my fault for sticking up for a child because it doesn't follow the narrative of pretending everything is great. So I'm going to go for a drive in a minute and study rightmove.

On the plus side I have about £7K pending from work on Monday (not told the family), no idea why...some kind of pay !!!!!! up I expect...either that or they're giving me december pay in November (which they don't usually do apparently). With that it is half tempting just to stash the cash away as that is more than enough for a moving fund (albeit I've got Christmas to pay for, which will take a big chunk).

warby68 said:

I think its just a stressed, busy house with everyone getting on each others' nerves.
So much in the mix, lockdowns, wfh, serious illness, space issues, 3 children plus family history/dynamics years in the making, not to mention a puppy. 
Said it before, in stressed or busy times, everyone thinks they do the most and, more to the point, that other people don't do enough or the right things. 
Often people gripe about small stuff or pick a scapegoat because there's nothing they can do about bigger problems.
Not sure if you're close enough to a town/city for day/short term serviced office rentals - looked into it for someone and you can get something nice here for £50/60 a day, much chesper if you take a week or a month. It might be worth working elsewhere a couple of days a week to relieve the pressure even with a bit of extra expense, Covid  restrictions permitting.
I think a cash gift on leaving would be nice and appropriate - the log burner was OTT. You've mentioned thoughtful gifts and doing lots of shopping but usually straight cash in hand has higher 'value' to some people. I'd give a couple of hundred towards Christmas plus regular gifts, someone said £50 Christmas week but that rang cheapskate bells for me.
Do the family know your rough plans for leaving? Might change the dynamic if they know you're moving out soon - not sure if it would be in a good or bad way though? I guess you can always say quite truthfully its the demands of the new job, you really need to get back to the City and have own space for unsociable hours, rather than right I'm off now my debts are gone.

Yeah I think you're spot on, once again. I kind of hoped that things might be on a more positive path but that's wishful thinking.

We do have hubs in other government offices around the country, just not sure if those offices are open so will look into that as a short term fix.

They don't, haven't really broached it with them but need to. Just feels a bit of an awkward thing to bring up even though work is a valid reason in itself.

purplehippo276 said:

Oh my god Ryan, I have no idea how you have kept your cool. It sounds such a stressful living situation.

I find their demands completely unreasonable. It's not like you haven't been contributing to the household, both financially and practically. However, for the sake of family relations, could you buy them the stove itself, and leave the family to sort out/pay for the fitting? We have a log burner. Whilst the stove itself was relatively cheap (under £500), the fitting was not (over £1500), but if you buy the stove you're fulfilling the (frankly ridiculous) family expectations and it would be within your anticipated spend. 

You can get fancy high end stoves that cost A LOT, but we opted for Fire Fox  the exact same as this one: https://www.directstoves.com/firefox-5-1-multifuel-stove.html (Fire Fox 5 if the link doesn't work). It was under £500 and does the job perfectly, and looks pretty nice too. We've had ours for over five years now, and it's still going great - really recommend it as a great little stove.

Pop a bow on it and say Merry Christmas and get the hell out of there!  

Yeah, think this situation would be stressful at the best of times without all the extras...

That's not a bad shout - just don't know if they'd then moan they wanted a different one ha...

That last line made me chuckle.

enthusiasticsaver said:

Hopefully you will be able to clear the debt this month and next month apart from Christmas costs you can start to build some savings to move out. I think it is definitely time now for you to reclaim your own space and reset the relationship back to family you see every now and again rather than live with. It is a bit much to moan at you about not helping with dinner at 4pm. If you were working at the office presumably you would not even be there. I think they  forget or don't appreciate you are actually still working albeit at home. How much do you need as a deposit for the type of accommodation you want? Are you going for zone 1/2 or further out? 

Yeah. At this rate I'll struggle to last until Christmas but hopefully it'll be better when work chills out a bit and I can try and take a bit more of the stress off of them.

Yeah, the office would make things a lot easier. The other thing is my old job was so slow paced and easy (what I hated about it) that I could take time out to help out and it didn't matter. They don't seem to understand why I can't treat this job the same...

I think for rent and deposit combined I'll need about £3kish, plus a bit of cash for anything I need (kitchen stuff, tv etc.) but worst case I could live without for a shortwhile if I had to. I have most of the basics just would have to nab them back. I'd be looking at zone 1 for convenience and I don't see much (if any price difference) by moving into zone 2/3.

Do wonder if I am the nuts one

enthusiasticsaver

You will soon have that deposit.  I would keep  quiet about your salary this month  if I were you to your family.  The bullying sounds awful but yet another reason for you to move out but can't help feeling how the child who is being bullied will feel with no one standing up for him.  Not your responsibility though. I am not sure how much rent is now in London but I guess for self contained in zone 1 you will be looking at minimum £1.5k -  £2k per month rent. 

MidsHollie

Hi Ryan,
you are doing so well with your debt, well done. And I must say, you must be a saint. I could not have done what you have done for 16 months! 

If I were you, I would be out of there this weekend. I would have a look on spare room or Airbnb even and see what’s available and get the hell out of there as fast as possible. It needn’t be the perfect room in the perfect location, but if you could get something short term and flexible...... I know you don’t want to share long term, but there are loads of people being flexible at the moment on spare room etc. 

I second direct stoves! I had the hamlet hardy 4, a similar price to the Firefox but a bit more modern looking. I’d be inclined to get them a voucher for direct stoves and RUN!!!!

ryanm8655

enthusiasticsaver said:

You will soon have that deposit.  I would keep  quiet about your salary this month  if I were you to your family.  The bullying sounds awful but yet another reason for you to move out but can't help feeling how the child who is being bullied will feel with no one standing up for him.  Not your responsibility though. I am not sure how much rent is now in London but I guess for self contained in zone 1 you will be looking at minimum £1.5k -  £2k per month rent. 

Yeah that’s it. The trouble is the house was a horrible place to live when we were challenging it, plus it made him notice it and speak up more but sometimes when he wasn’t in the right. Though that’s not his fault. Things have been better but it’s still not fair imo, he still gets a hard time and tonight was a return to that spiteful behaviour that I haven’t noticed in a while. He was once given gone off milk to drink and that was done out of spite (my uncle was there and said the same so it’s not just me seeing the worst in it). Stuff like that used to happen all the time. As I say, things have got better but partly because people have stopped challenging injustices and putting up with a lower level to keep the peace. But feel really sorry for him, had similar growing up. It’s also the fact the other two kids copy the behaviour, especially the youngest, so can be quite nasty. Doesn’t help them to grow up to be nice people either. Youngest is going to be a right nightmare.

Rent wise it’s not too bad, can get a pretty nice 1 bed for around £1300/1400 in one of the older “new build” sort of blocks not far from the station. Paid about £1950 for a nice 2 bed around there a few years back, so prices have dropped a bit for Corona. You can always haggle a bit in London on rent (a concept I found strange initially).

A bit concerned about the work overpayment It’s definitely not a bonus and looking at the payment calendar we are due to be paid in December so I don’t know !!!!!! they’ve done. Our team did get one but that was paid last month (and sadly I missed out as it was for a piece of work before I joined). It’s more than I would get without paying any tax or pension as well.

ryanm8655

MidsHollie said:

Hi Ryan,
you are doing so well with your debt, well done. And I must say, you must be a saint. I could not have done what you have done for 16 months! 

If I were you, I would be out of there this weekend. I would have a look on spare room or Airbnb even and see what’s available and get the hell out of there as fast as possible. It needn’t be the perfect room in the perfect location, but if you could get something short term and flexible...... I know you don’t want to share long term, but there are loads of people being flexible at the moment on spare room etc. 

I second direct stoves! I had the hamlet hardy 4, a similar price to the Firefox but a bit more modern looking. I’d be inclined to get them a voucher for direct stoves and RUN!!!!

It is so tempting. Would take some organising though. I think you are right though, I should seriously look into it this weekend. Things just seem to be escalating.

I was so furious, it was one of those moments where I just wanted to run away where I was so mad and upset by it. Honestly it was heartbreaking seeing what had been a happy boy who was so chuffed to be telling me about writing a love letter and giving it to his crush earlier on to then be torn down like that by a bully. And then to be the one chastised for sticking up for him by another adult was like a double whammy. “He put his hand in the way so don’t have a go at me”...a very liberal interpretation of the situation for one (he had more Mayo on him than they normally put on his plate and it doesn’t come out that quickly) and two, even if it was as simple as that then why not comfort them. Got to have a lot of irrational hatred for the boy to treat him like that. Poor kid. Eurgh... It’s horrible as I know for my own mental health I need to get out.

Legs21

You’ve done so well to get where you are money wise in such a short space of time. I think it’s probably getting more frustrating where you live as you’re so close to being able to get out of there. You’re almost within touching distance of being debt free. I don’t think I’d be able to stomach a few more months in your situation and would be looking to get out ASAP,  and to be honest I think the family would probably like to have the house back to themselves too. You may just have to bite the bullet and put a deposit for a rental place on a card. It’ll put you back a few months, but you’re already proved that you can live well within your means and you’d be doing it in your own place rather than continuing to put up with where you are now.  There’s been lots of options posted on here for you but ultimately it’s your decision. You’re the one who knows how much more you can/cannot tolerate the behaviours and snarky remarks and whether to leave now or stick with it for a few more months.

L x

warby68

I hadn't picked up quite so much on the bullying before - thought it was more playing favourites - I would despise the bully and find it very hard to live there. I think I take back the idea of a generous leaving gift. I'd rather put it away for the boy, maybe a little nest egg for when he decides he's out of there. Sorry, that may be out of turn and it certainly isn't your responsibility but it makes my blood boil.