eBay and Paypal scammed as a seller

pantaiema

soolin wrote: »

Which person? Who should collect it and what 'proof' do you think paypal require from a person before they are allowed to collect and how is that 'proof' obtained.

The only person who knows what item to be collected, OP phone number (Evidence of a few message have been exchanged), which address, collection time is the person who bought the item). Noone else will know this information. Also when collecting eBay item in person, did people really ever ask proof of people ID to ensure the correct person collecting the item. I have been colleting numerous eBay items in person noone ever ask my ID. All I need is to call them in advance and turn up. Sometimes I show them the text message whicc has been exchanged. I wonder if anyone could share a different way of doing that.

The fact that the buyers (might be the scammers himself) mentioned his account have been hacked is not the OP problem.

Keep in mind the money is already in the OP AC. The only legal way eBay, PP, the buyer (the scemmer?) could get the money refunded is by taking the OP to the court.

soolin

sok777 wrote: »

I completely disagree with you. And it's not just because I think you're blaming the victim.
You can't expect ordinary genuine people to be aware of scams. PayPal and their so called protection is a joke to be honest because a proof of delivery is absolutely worthless as the buyer can claim that someone else signed for them or that it was a different item. That's like giving warranty that doesn't cover anything in real life.
But either way, that's not the point. The point is that even if the buyer's account was hacked, I shouldn't be made responsible for that. I have sold the item to the buyer and the collection was arranged directly on eBay, messaging the buyer. This, in court I hope, would serve as a much better evidence. If this guy's account was hacked then really either eBay or him is responsible for bad security. We can agree to disagree, but I hope you'll at least acknowledge that an attitude that implies that the victim deserves it is never the right one. Thank you for your points and references and time taken to respond.

I am not blaming the victim, in fact I have every sympathy and would be feeling ghastly if it happened to me. However I am saying that in any situation people do need to use their common sense and where there are requirements for protection, read and understand them. PayPal make it exceedingly clear what small requirements are needed for seller protection.

There is absolutely nothing stopping you go to court just choose who to name your complaint against carefully. You might also want to try the eBay community boards (use a new account and wear a tin hat) to see if anyone else has successfully sued for anything, and see what they advise.

soolin

pantaiema wrote: »

The only person who knows what item to be collected, OP phone number (Evidence of a few message have been exchanged), which address, collection time is the person who bought the item). Noone else will know this information.

The fact that the buyers (might be the scammers himsles) mentioned his account have been hacked is not the OP problem.

Keep in mind the money is already in the OP AC. The only legal way eBay, PP, the buyer (the scemmer?) could get the money refunded is by taking the OP to the court.

AFAIK Paypal hav enever taken anyone to court, on many boards such as this regulars await any definite proof of a court case with interest.

However they will chase the OP for the balance using debt collectors and it would serve the OP well to get proper advice on what the limits of their power are . Obviously as well OP can't use PayPal again and by default eBay, and it is likely to impact any others that eBay consider connected with the OP.

pantaiema

soolin wrote: »

AFAIK Paypal hav enever taken anyone to court, on many boards such as this regulars await any definite proof of a court case with interest.

However they will chase the OP for the balance using debt collectors and it would serve the OP well to get proper advice on what the limits of their power are . Obviously as well OP can't use PayPal again and by default eBay, and it is likely to impact any others that eBay consider connected with the OP.

It has been mentioned this Debt collector is a chancer and toothless. The normal advice to deal with this sort of debt collector is to ignore them or to challenge them to take the case to the court. They will be in trouble if they try to threaten the OP in other way.

System

soolin wrote: »

I am not blaming the victim, in fact I have every sympathy and would be feeling ghastly if it happened to me. However I am saying that in any situation people do need to use their common sense and where there are requirements for protection, read and understand them. PayPal make it exceedingly clear what small requirements are needed for seller protection.

There is absolutely nothing stopping you go to court just choose who to name your complaint against carefully. You might also want to try the eBay community boards (use a new account and wear a tin hat) to see if anyone else has successfully sued for anything, and see what they advise.

I appreciate your response. I did not read the email because I thought my protection was with eBay as a seller and not with PayPal. And even more so, I didn't think of protection because I am not expecting for someone to scam me, especially if I see I already have the money.
Regardless, if they decide that I have to pay back I will challenge it as people suggested simply because it isn't my fault the account was hacked (if it really was). I don't mind not to use PayPal or eBay ever again, in fact on both occasions - whether it is easy to hack into account or whether it's easy to scam people and they allow it - I'd rather not use them ever again. There are plenty of other services available, thankfully.

pinkshoes

The issue here is allowing collection with PayPal.

I have only ever got round this by getting a courier quote for postage fr items i want collecting, and putting this on the auction, even if the courier quote was £200!!! I then also state that cash on collection is also welcome.

The ridiculously high courier fee has always put people off PayPal and they are happy with cash.

Ultimately PayPal will/might chase you as you didn't follow their rules. That is between you and PayPal.

You could argue that the buyer was negligent with their PayPal password to allow their account to be hacked, but that is between you and the buyer. Is it worth taking them to court? Would you win such a case?

Your last avenue is the person who collected and if you have a clear CCTV image. That is between you and the police.

Ultimately the scam only happened because you broke PayPal rules.

soolin

sok777 wrote: »

I appreciate your response. I did not read the email because I thought my protection was with eBay as a seller and not with PayPal. And even more so, I didn't think of protection because I am not expecting for someone to scam me, especially if I see I already have the money.
Regardless, if they decide that I have to pay back I will challenge it as people suggested simply because it isn't my fault the account was hacked (if it really was). I don't mind not to use PayPal or eBay ever again, in fact on both occasions - whether it is easy to hack into account or whether it's easy to scam people and they allow it - I'd rather not use them ever again. There are plenty of other services available, thankfully.

eBay and PayPal are two different companies hence the rather difficult situation of needing to offer PayPal to comply with eBay rules, yet not getting PayPal seller protection due to their rules. This may become less difficult when (or if) eBay roll out their new payment system, AYden, in the U.K. .

One of the threads I posted a link to above covers the very real issue of collection only items. I am a heavy user of eBay and PayPal (I sell elsewhere online and get a lot of non eBay - PayPal payments ) and no longer list anything anywhere that requires me to offer PayPal on a collection only item. This basically means all my collection only items are never listed on eBay. As I said above I am cautious to the extent of being almost paranoid.

System

soolin wrote: »

eBay and PayPal are two different companies hence the rather difficult situation of needing to offer PayPal to comply with eBay rules, yet not getting PayPal seller protection due to their rules. This may become less difficult when (or if) eBay roll out their new payment system, AYden, in the U.K. .

One of the threads I posted a link to above covers the very real issue of collection only items. I am a heavy user of eBay and PayPal (I sell elsewhere online and get a lot of non eBay - PayPal payments ) and no longer list anything anywhere that requires me to offer PayPal on a collection only item. This basically means all my collection only items are never listed on eBay. As I said above I am cautious to the extent of being almost paranoid.

I appreciate the information and the comment. Looking at my eBay account now I don't see an option to do that, other than to not accept collections at all. Anyway, I'm not a professional seller, I'm merely a person who sells on eBay once or twice a year. I've used both eBay and PayPal for many years, and never had any issues not as a buyer (300+ things bought) and not as a seller (probably a few dozens items sold)

System

pantaiema wrote: »

It has been mentioned this Debt collector is a chancer and toothless. The normal advice to deal with this sort of debt collector is to ignore them or to challenge them to take the case to the court. They will be in trouble if they try to threaten the OP in other way.

Thank you!

System

pantaiema wrote: »

The only person who knows what item to be collected, OP phone number (Evidence of a few message have been exchanged), which address, collection time is the person who bought the item). Noone else will know this information. Also when collecting eBay item in person, did people really ever ask proof of people ID to ensure the correct person collecting the item. I have been colleting numerous eBay items in person noone ever ask my ID. All I need is to call them in advance and turn up. Sometimes I show them the text message whicc has been exchanged. I wonder if anyone could share a different way of doing that.

The fact that the buyers (might be the scammers himself) mentioned his account have been hacked is not the OP problem.

Keep in mind the money is already in the OP AC. The only legal way eBay, PP, the buyer (the scemmer?) could get the money refunded is by taking the OP to the court.

Exactly. and I'm happy to take it further especially if this will result in less scams to genuine sellers.