eBay and Paypal scammed as a seller

lindens

you may get better advice moving this thread over to the ebay area of the forum

System

lindens wrote: »

you may get better advice moving this thread over to the ebay area of the forum

How do I do that please? can't seem to find it.

System

Copying this here, hopefully that's okay.

Hi there,
I have sold an item on eBay recently and had arranged a collection with the buyer directly on eBay. I made sure the money was paid into my paypal account.
Several minutes after the collection was complete, I start getting messages on my eBay from that buyer claiming that he never ordered or paid for it. He then called me and said that it wasn't him and claimed the account was hacked.

Paypal now have an open dispute of an unauthorised transaction and since I already transferred the money to my bank, they are showing my balance as a negative. Upon reading online it seems as if this is a common scam in many different ways or shapes, and that paypal often forces the seller to pay back !

I am not sure if the buyer was legitimately scammed or whether he is trying to pull off a scam to get the item + money back. Either way, I don't see how this is my fault or responsibility.
If someone broke into your home, stole money from you, and then paid Tesco (or any other merchant) with that money, you couldn't possibly ask Tesco for that money back, could you?

At this point I'm waiting to hear from paypal, but I'd like to get some tips from the people here who have valuable information that can help me. If paypal ask me to pay back, can I refuse and what would be the consequences?

Needless to say, I already logged a criminal report with Action Fraud and I potentially have the guy who collected on CCTV (waiting to hear from a neighbour). I have all the evidence such as eBay and text messaging with him.

Many thanks

MEM62

sok777 wrote: »

I appreciate that, but it's rather too late now.
As I said, proof of delivery is worthless in real life, as I could have sent any item, really.
I have the proof of the meeting which I hope will be sufficient enough. I do not intend to pay Paypal should they ask me to, as I sold it in good faith and the collection was arranged via eBay who allows collections.

You really can't expect any ordinary man to know and think of every scam, and avoid collection using paypal. How should I know about this? If it's that common they shouldn't allow it, as it seems they are helping scammers get away with it basically.

If you want to know how bad it can get, I claimed on the basis of goods not received. The seller had sent them by Parcelforce. I had proof from Royal Mail, via their tracking system, that they were delivered to a different address. eBay refused to accept this and stated that the document that I had given them was 'invalid' - a phrase they used a lot during my exchanges with them.

eBay stated that they would only issue me with a refund if I produced a letter from the Post Office stating, where the goods originated from, the address to which they should have been delivered and the address to which they were delivered. As it was the PO informed me that they were unable to do that as their service used did not allow for it.

This is how bad / pathetic it can get. The pay by PayPal, arrange collection and claim non-delivery scam, is well known and a loophole that should have been closed a long time ago. Fortunately, most are wise to it these days and will not fall for it.

For that amount I understand you standing your ground. FWIW, although they may appoint debt collectors, I believe that eBay have yet to pursue a debt of that nature via the courts.

System

MEM62 wrote: »

If you want to know how bad it can get, I claimed on the basis of goods not received. The seller had sent them by Parcelforce. I had proof from Royal Mail, via their tracking system, that they were delivered to a different address. eBay refused to accept this and stated that the document that I had given them was 'invalid' - a phrase they used a lot during my exchanges with them.

eBay stated that they would only issue me with a refund if I produced a letter from the Post Office stating, where the goods originated from, the address to which they should have been delivered and the address to which they were delivered. As it was the PO informed me that they were unable to do that as their service used did not allow for it.

This is how bad / pathetic it can get. The pay by PayPal, arrange collection and claim non-delivery scam, is well known and a loophole that should have been closed a long time ago. Fortunately, most are wise to it these days and will not fall for it.

For that amount I understand you standing your ground. FWIW, although they may appoint debt collectors, I believe that eBay have yet to pursue a debt of that nature via the courts.

I'll happily take it to court because as a moral person if it isn't enough that this scammer is roaming free, I have no money and no item.
I'm sorry for what has happened to you. I spoke to eBay yesterday and told them that any buyer, including myself, can claim an item wasn't received and if that's the case- why wouldn't everyone do it? Of course, I'd never do it for moral reasons, but if the loophole is there someone will take advantage of it. If I do get the CCTV from my neighbour, then I think I have a pretty solid case if it gets to court.
I read now, on a different forum, that you can contact the ombudsman for help with these queries. Any idea about that?

sourcrates

As above, if not found in your favour, these debts get passed to a debt collection agency, who will go through their standard set of collection letters, they have no authority to take the matter further as they do not own the debt.
Ebay/PayPal debts never see a court room, PayPal currently has 1.5 million outstanding complaints yet to be dealt with, they are pretty rubbish to be honest.

System

sourcrates wrote: »

As above, if not found in your favour, these debts get passed to a debt collection agency, who will go through their standard set of collection letters, they have no authority to take the matter further as they do not own the debt.
Ebay/PayPal debts never see a court room, PayPal currently has 1.5 million outstanding complaints yet to be dealt with, they are pretty rubbish to be honest.

I really appreciate your comment and the information.
I've never had any dispute with a company, and I hope not to get there as I don't want to go through that process and stress, but normally if I know I'm in the wrong I'd accept the consequences but in this case - I know I've sold it to the buyer and 100% in good faith. The fact that they support scammers is beyond me. For example, they could send seller a picture of the buyers, if the buyer requests a collection..
Either way, if they ever rule in favour of the seller? They have advised me that there are two different investigations: one is on the buyer's side and one on my side. As far as I can see they accepted that buyer's account was hacked (not sure how) but my case is still under review.

Thanks again

pantaiema

sok777 wrote: »

I'll happily take it to court because as a moral person if it isn't enough that this scammer is roaming free, I have no money and no item.
I'm sorry for what has happened to you. I spoke to eBay yesterday and told them that any buyer, including myself, can claim an item wasn't received and if that's the case- why wouldn't everyone do it? Of course, I'd never do it for moral reasons, but if the loophole is there someone will take advantage of it. If I do get the CCTV from my neighbour, then I think I have a pretty solid case if it gets to court.
I read now, on a different forum, that you can contact the ombudsman for help with these queries. Any idea about that?

Do not give up, you have the proof of the meeting as well as communications. Anyone will be able to see this one will stand in the court.

System

pantaiema wrote: »

Do not give up, you have the proof of the meeting as well as communications. Anyone will be able to see this one will stand in the court.

Thank you so much for your support. It helps me a lot.
Honestly, I was embarrassed to say it before, but I have to admit that beyond the money issue I feel really traumatised by this experience. Thanks again.

[Deleted User]

You should really only accept cash on collection for collection items. I wouldn’t of took the risk.