eBay and Paypal scammed as a seller

Legacy_user

Hi there,
I have sold an item on eBay recently and had arranged a collection with the buyer directly on eBay. I made sure the money was paid into my paypal account.
Several minutes after the collection was complete, I start getting messages on my eBay from that buyer claiming that he never ordered or paid for it. He then called me and said that it wasn't him and claimed the account was hacked.

Paypal now have an open dispute of an unauthorised transaction and since I already transferred the money to my bank, they are showing my balance as a negative. Upon reading online it seems as if this is a common scam in many different ways or shapes, and that paypal often forces the seller to pay back !

I am not sure if the buyer was legitimately scammed or whether he is trying to pull off a scam to get the item + money back. Either way, I don't see how this is my fault or responsibility.
If someone broke into your home, stole money from you, and then paid Tesco (or any other merchant) with that money, you couldn't possibly ask Tesco for that money back, could you?

At this point I'm waiting to hear from paypal, but I'd like to get some tips from the people here who have valuable information that can help me. If paypal ask me to pay back, can I refuse and what would be the consequences?

Needless to say, I already logged a criminal report with Action Fraud and I potentially have the guy who collected on CCTV (waiting to hear from a neighbour). I have all the evidence such as eBay and text messaging with him.

Many thanks

[Deleted User]

You need to wait for PayPal to complete their investigations.

MEM62

sok777 wrote: »

I don't see how this is my fault or responsibility.

I believe that, in order to benefit from eBay's seller protection, you must send the item and retain proof of postage. As you have not done that you have left yourself open. (Not an uncommon method of fraud my reading leads me to believe)

System

But eBay are the ones who allow collections.
Surely I can take Paypal or them to court if they choose to charge me? I'm now without the item and potentially without money too and I've got proof that the buyer has collected. He agreed collection directly via eBay so if anything it's their responsibility, either the buyer is fooling them or if he really has been hacked then he it's his or eBay fault for lacking of the security.
Are you suggesting that any collection of an item can be simply reversed? That's unacceptable as far as I see it.

I appreciate your help, just never been in this situation and I'm obviously still very shaken about this

System

!!! wrote: »

You need to wait for PayPal to complete their investigations.

I will wait, of course. I'm just trying to grasp what's going on and what is the possible outcome.
Paypal claim that even if the account was indeed hacked (which isn't likely in my opinion due to the nature of this scam) then it doesn't mean that I'll have to pay. I'm not sure if they're being honest or not.

System

MEM62 wrote: »

I believe that, in order to benefit from eBay's seller protection, you must send the item and retain proof of postage. As you have not done that you have left yourself open. (Not an uncommon method of fraud my reading leads me to believe)

By the way, they have mentioned it to me, which is rather silly as a person can post anything and claim that it was the item. But actually having text messages and potentially CCTV is far superior to prove the deal took place. I'm not sure their argument will stand in court

MEM62

sok777 wrote: »

By the way, they have mentioned it to me, which is rather silly as a person can post anything and claim that it was the item. But actually having text messages and potentially CCTV is far superior to prove the deal took place. I'm not sure their argument will stand in court

eBay has a set of rules. You signed up to these when you joined and sales/purchases are bound by them. Litigation is risky at the best of times but you are on a hiding to nothing if you sign up to a set of terms and conditions and then try to litigate because you decide that you don't like them at some later point. You have an additional complication in that eBay are a US company - where are you planning to serve your legal notice?

It is not that I am unsympathetic to your plight. I understand your frustration and I have had to fight eBay in respect of a purchase where I was defrauded by the seller so I have been where you are. You may be morally in the right but that is a long way from being successful in court.

At this stage eBay's ruling may still go your way so you don't know that you have lost out yet. How much are we talking about?

lindens

I'm afraid you may have been scammed. never accept paypal for a collection only item. Can you prove the buyer received delivery of the item? no as he collected it.
Cash on collection only. I'm afraid you have probably lost your money. MSE have a post about collection only items at the top of this forum

System

MEM62 wrote: »

eBay has a set of rules. You signed up to these when you joined and sales/purchases are bound by them. Litigation is risky at the best of times but you are on a hiding to nothing if you sign up to a set of terms and conditions and then try to litigate because you decide that you don't like them at some later point. You have an additional complication in that eBay are a US company - where are you planning to serve your legal notice?

It is not that I am unsympathetic to your plight. I understand your frustration and I have had to fight eBay in respect of a purchase where I was defrauded by the seller so I have been where you are. You may be morally in the right but that is a long way from being successful in court.

At this stage eBay's ruling may still go your way so you don't know that you have lost out yet. How much are we talking about?

Nearly £1K.

System

lindens wrote: »

I'm afraid you may have been scammed. never accept paypal for a collection only item. Can you prove the buyer received delivery of the item? no as he collected it.
Cash on collection only. I'm afraid you have probably lost your money. MSE have a post about collection only items at the top of this forum

I appreciate that, but it's rather too late now.
As I said, proof of delivery is worthless in real life, as I could have sent any item, really.
I have the proof of the meeting which I hope will be sufficient enough. I do not intend to pay Paypal should they ask me to, as I sold it in good faith and the collection was arranged via eBay who allows collections.

You really can't expect any ordinary man to know and think of every scam, and avoid collection using paypal. How should I know about this? If it's that common they shouldn't allow it, as it seems they are helping scammers get away with it basically.

lindens

Well it was your choice to use Ebay
Either you use Ebay a lot in which case you will have known about this well-known pitfall
Or you don't in which case you educate yourself about using Ebay before you start, especially for something worth £1K