A Question for Tory Supporters

coastline

Arklight wrote: »

Tories can't think of a single positive reason about why they're voting Tory on Thursday, can they? Just made up bile about Jeremy Corbyn.

Jeremy Corbyn appears to be the only reason Tories can come up with to justify voting with their selfishness, their xenophobia, and their bitterness.

I hope for your sakes you're as rich as you pretend to be, and when you're lying on a corridor floor waiting for a nurse to change your drip, you can phone Bupa, or whatever paid for health service the Americans say you can have.

I'm not really into politics but I listen as much as I can and form an opinion. There's no doubt this election is all about the stalemate in parliament regarding Brexit and there's no doubt people are fed up with it all.
The Tories have Brexit as the main theme and Labour are highlighting several key issues such as the NHS. Almost every day the Labour leader bangs on about fixing the NHS .
Just out of curiosity I thought I'd see what they are prepared to spend to improve things. Straight off I see they'll spend more over the next 5 years ( 2019-2023 ) but its only £6bn more than the Tories. Figures are £155bn against £149bn.
Can anyone seriously say this will transform the NHS. It's not even 1% per year more. It'll get lost in the system not to mention pay rises Labour have pledged for the public sector.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-50397847

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-50290033

buggy_boy

Takedap wrote: »

You obviously don't understand the difference between a policy that allows the use of lethal force and a "shoot to kill" policy.

I understand it will make those having to make those decisions wary about makeing the right call for fear of being punished.. That hesitance, that fear can be the difference between life or death.. Those in the met have to make those tough calls and we should back those that are there to protect us.

If it were your children attacked would you accept their deaths because a firearms officer froze through fear of repercusions if they make the wrong decision?

GreatApe

coastline wrote: »

I'm not really into politics but I listen as much as I can and form an opinion. There's no doubt this election is all about the stalemate in parliament regarding Brexit and there's no doubt people are fed up with it all.
The Tories have Brexit as the main theme and Labour are highlighting several key issues such as the NHS. Almost every day the Labour leader bangs on about fixing the NHS .
Just out of curiosity I thought I'd see what they are prepared to spend to improve things. Straight off I see they'll spend more over the next 5 years ( 2019-2023 ) but its only £6bn more than the Tories. Figures are £155bn against £149bn.
Can anyone seriously say this will transform the NHS. It's not even 1% per year more. It'll get lost in the system not to mention pay rises Labour have pledged for the public sector.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-50397847

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-50290033

I'm not sure if the public are thick or labor just think they are

Healthcare is a bottomless committment
We can't have a perfect heath system because perfect heath doesn't exist
Whatever you cure or fix is replaced by the person living a little longer and having something else go wrong which needs tending to by the NHS

Perfection shouldn't be an aim for the NHS the aim should be a decent healthcare system not a perfect system that can never exist.

Part of me wishes the Tories would simply say that and that the electorate are reasonable enough to understand this but it's an unknown risk that they understandably won't take

Even with bed numbers the NHS should be and is set up to deal with average winter loads
You shouldn't ever aim to meet peak demand because to do so would mean wasted resources at all non peak times that can be spent better elsewhere in the NHS


Overall I think the UK healthcare system is pretty good it's decent it's not perfect but it's good
And as you say in either hands it's going to be more or less the same with perhaps a fraction of a fraction difference that will be almost unnoticeable

GreatApe

phillw wrote: »

People are within their rights to be offended by anything they wish, but offending a jewish person doesn't make you anti-semetic. Israel was created by an act of war by the british empire. Half the people in the UK have lost their mind because the EU has forced us to clean up our beaches and treat people better, imagine what would happen if they took part of our country away from us?

I'm more right wing than left but I have some very left wing friends and the !!!! they come up with about Jews is ridiculous. To be honest with you I didn't even realise how toxic it was until it was in the media of late. I just thought what stupid conspiracy theories it seemed more a joke to me than anything else. I now accept what seems like ridiculous jokes and conspiracy theories to me are actually very ignorant racist ideas and ideology and I can understand what looks like ridiculous conspiracy theories to me can be seen as s threat by the Jewish community and really it is because the same people if they got into power would they shed these theories or act upon them?

Also I think there is a different tone between hate of Jews and other minorities
Some people dislike black people or Muslims or whoever but never in a way to suggest those groups are in power and control and are dangers to be observed and dealt with.

Like it or not the left do have a Jewish problem
Ignoring it by saying X or y dislikes this or that group makes the situation worse
The labor party needs to accept there is a problem and deal with it fully
Not pretend and let their supporters carry on with ridiculous ideas and theories

And yes now whenever the topic comes up with my lefty friends I put them right and ridicule their conspiracy Jewish theories as I would those who think the moon landings were faked.

GreatApe

Arklight wrote: »

Tory Britain:

There is nothing wrong with this image

The healthcare system should not be set up to meet absolute peak demand but should be set up to offer a good services which the UK NHS does
On an individual level it's bad for the kid
On a national level it's better use of resources for the NHS

If you are finding it hard to understand think of London buses
People can't get a seat a peak times
Does this mean the bus service is broken and needs significantly more seats?
Or does it mean some overspill is accepted a few days/hours a year to offer a more affordable service to everyone

These situations will happen in any and all heath services run under a right or left government

I don't know which is worse, that the left don't understand this or they do but use a small boy for political leverage

Also I'm not against migration but would the big have had a bed available if the 5 Million migrate over the last decade has not been allowed to come? (Yes I am aware this is a fake argument that migrants also pay taxes and there are more beds and NHS staff as a result but if you want to play games and tricks that's the reply to you)

Theophile

Arklight wrote: »

Tory Britain:

Johnson's reaction:


1) refuses to look at picture when confronted with it by ITV reporter

2) robs the reporter of his phone live on air

triathlon

Theophile wrote: »

Johnson's reaction:


1) refuses to look at picture when confronted with it by ITV reporter

2) robs the reporter of his phone live on air

Boris is a clown, I am saddened that we live in a country where he is probably going to be seen as the best choice to lead us come Friday.

But I do not for one second believe that Boris wants/wanted a little boy to be suffering on the floor like some in the media and his enemy's suggest. I am more disgusted in the way this photo is being used politically and you would have to be an idiot not to question it's validity, like nothing ever bad happened when Labour were in power, for starters Labour are 100% to blame for the shortage of homes and homelessness in the UK today

jimi_man

GreatApe wrote: »

Like it or not the left do have a Jewish problem
Ignoring it by saying X or y dislikes this or that group makes the situation worse
The labor party needs to accept there is a problem and deal with it fully
Not pretend and let their supporters carry on with ridiculous ideas and theories

Yes of course they do and Corbyn does seem to acknowledge that now, though it's odd that there are still plenty of deniers on this thread and I'm not quite sure why?

After all it's a failing of a political party and the other side (the Tories) will naturally take advantage of that failing. Exactly the same principle is reversed when Labour take advantage of a Tory failing. That's how politics works, why do people have to get so defensive and personal about it?

Moby

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventy-Two_Virgins
Here is a wikipedia page on the novel Seventy Two Virgins written by Boris Johnson. In the novel Johnson talks about Jews running the media and interfering with elections as well as writing all kinds of bigoted filth about women, Muslims and black people. As wikipedia says 'Arabs are casually noted to have 'hook noses' and 'slanty eyes'; a mixed-race Briton is called 'coffee-coloured;; and there are mentions of '!!!!!!' and people who are 'half-caste'." .....but Corbyn is an anti semite because he supports the Palestinian cause.

jimi_man

Arklight wrote: »

Tories can't think of a single positive reason about why they're voting Tory on Thursday, can they? Just made up bile about Jeremy Corbyn.

Of course they can, there have been plenty of reasons on this thread. I would imagine that wanting to leave the EU probably ranks fairly highly. However it's also fair to say that for some people, it's a case of choosing the least worst candidate.

Arklight wrote: »

Jeremy Corbyn appears to be the only reason Tories can come up with to justify voting with their selfishness, their xenophobia, and their bitterness.

Why do you have to launch into insults? I understand that people get frustrated that they don't get their own way but throwing around insults doesn't really help anyone, other than it may make you feel better.

Arklight wrote: »

I hope for your sakes you're as rich as you pretend to be, and when you're lying on a corridor floor waiting for a nurse to change your drip, you can phone Bupa, or whatever paid for health service the Americans say you can have.

Who's pretending to be rich? People vote for a political system for a number of reasons and usually (in my case certainly) there is compromise involved. Not everything the Conservatives come out with I agree with and there are some Labour and Lib Dem ideas that I agree with. However on balance, I prefer (at the moment) the Conservative ideology.

Having said that I am less impressed with the Conservative ideology at this election than previously, but equally I am less impressed with the alternative too. If there was to be an election where the Conservative ideology (in my eyes) got further removed and an alternative was closer then I would probably consider the alternative as a viable choice.

I still wouldn't regress to insulting opposition voters though.

With two days to go, and not being hugely impressed with pollsters I think it will be fairly close. I still think another hung parliament is on the cards which unfortunately means we are no further forward.