A Question for Tory Supporters

Arklight

Fran_Klee wrote: »

Responses in red.
No, poverty obviously doesn't prevent people getting back into work - otherwise we would never see a rise in the number of employed.
Self-inflicted reasons are another thing as is so often the case; instead of a new iPhone on contract buy wiser so that you can afford a loaf of bread & something to go on it.

Some poor people aren't good at budgeting, which is why Labour funded Sure Start programmes and family centre outreach l to teach low income parents how to. They were very successful and have a direct correlation to hugely improved life, education, and employment prospects for children of long term unemployed.

Which is why the Tories have obliterated the funding for them. They have no interest in lifting the poor out of poverty because it would leave right wingers no one to demonise and blame.

Well, as long as the top 1000 rich people have added £250 billion to their personal wealth in the last few years, while this abysmal government tortures the disabled, vilifies the poor (they've created) and provides hand outs to their cronies, all must be well.

Triple_Zero

Arklight wrote: »

Well, as long as the top 1000 rich people have added £250 billion to their personal wealth in the last few years, while this abysmal government tortures the disabled, vilifies the poor (they've created) and provides hand outs to their cronies, all must be well.

And in the process has created record levels of employment while also raising income tax thresholds so lifting millions more out of paying income tax.
Not too bad at all.
:T

Arklight

Triple_Zero wrote: »

And in the process has created record levels of employment while also raising income tax thresholds so lifting millions more out of paying income tax.
Not too bad at all.
:T

Fiddled the unemployment records, more like.

https://www4.shu.ac.uk/research/cresr/news/real-level-unemployment-almost-35million-new-report

SpiderLegs

Arklight wrote: »

Fiddled the unemployment records, more like.

https://www4.shu.ac.uk/research/cresr/news/real-level-unemployment-almost-35million-new-report

Report written in 2012.

Quote from link -

Professor Steve Fothergill, who led the research, said: “For more than 20 years successive governments have hidden the true scale of unemployment, especially by parking vast numbers on incapacity benefits.”

As propaganda goes I give this one 2/10 must try harder.

Arklight

SpiderLegs wrote: »

Report written in 2012.

Quote from link -


As propaganda goes I give this one 2/10 must try harder.

Oh OK. Here's one from this October undertaken by the OECD stating the headline unemployment rate needs to be raised by 3 million. Making the real UK rate over 14%.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/oct/17/unemployment-figures-should-be-millions-higher-says-research

Of course, anyone who doesn't live in an affluent Tory voting bubble already knows this.

Davy_Jones_II

Arklight wrote: »

No, I dislike cheats, criminals, and those who take out while giving nothing back.

I appreciate you believe this to be entrepreneurialism, but some of us have a moral compass which doesn't just degenerate to demanding homeless people are locked up.

You’re talking about the bottom 60% of the population here, the higher earners pay far more in than they take out.

Arklight

Davy_Jones_II wrote: »

You’re talking about the bottom 60% of the population here, the higher earners pay far more in than they take out.

You are talking about people who pay tax. The really wealthy pay virtually nothing.

SpiderLegs

Arklight wrote: »

Oh OK. Here's one from this October undertaken by the OECD stating the headline unemployment rate needs to be raised by 3 million. Making the real UK rate over 14%.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/oct/17/unemployment-figures-should-be-millions-higher-says-research

Of course, anyone who doesn't live in an affluent Tory voting bubble already knows this.

Of course, anyone who knows anything knows this -

A spokesperson for the Office for National Statistics, which produces the official estimates of unemployment in Britain, said its headline figures were based upon internationally agreed definitions, which includes those both looking for and available to start work.

So your usual bleating about anything that isn’t based on 1970s socialist claptrap is in this case a pointless whinge against international standards.

3/10 getting better, just.

Davy_Jones_II

Arklight wrote: »

You are talking about people who pay tax. The really wealthy pay virtually nothing.

No, you repeating a lie doesn’t make it true.

The bottom three quintiles pay nothing in at all when correctly calculated on a net basis. The second-top quintile pays a few thousand a year, and the top quintile pays nearly the whole tax take.

If we narrow it down from all taxes to I come tax, the top 1% of earners earn 14% of the wages but pay 28% of the tax.

I can post the ONS figures if you aren’t able to look them up yourself; where are you pulling your fantasy figures from?

As I’ve pointed out before, part of the push for me to move abroad was the complete lack of appreciation from people like you towards people like me who paid in huge amounts every year.

I used to be happy to do so, it was a fair way to organise the burden, but now that I see the attitude of net recipients, which is sneering and insults, you can just fend for yourself. I won’t contribute any more.

Herzlos

Fran_Klee wrote: »

Responses in red.

Who is we?

What makes you think the poor have time? They may have family to look after and not be able to afford care.



Regarding poverty and health, this is interesting reading: https://www.health.org.uk/infographic/poverty-and-health

No, poverty obviously doesn't prevent people getting back into work - otherwise we would never see a rise in the number of employed.

That doesn't disprove it; some people can get work despite poverty, whilst it's made harder (with a lot of programs to help people being cut, people being punished harder for being poor).

Self-inflicted reasons are another thing as is so often the case; instead of a new iPhone on contract buy wiser so that you can afford a loaf of bread & something to go on it.

You've got a pretty broken notion of poverty if you think that the poor in this country are prioritizing iPhones over food. I know it's a pretty popular right-wing trope that the poor are all living in expensive council houses for free watching 90" TV's with Sky and playing with new phones on £50/month contracts but the reality is completely different.


Some people will waste money on new phones, others only dream of that. Having some kind of smart phone now is almost essential for day to day life and job hunting. Lots of government services (like benefits) have been moving on-line only (as the Tories have been closing down libraries and free access to the internet).


If you don't believe me, go spend some time with people who are actually in poverty - go volunteer at a food bank or something.