A Question for Tory Supporters

ukcarper

Dee_Best wrote: »

Whereas I've always held liberal views, but now the LibDems aren't liberal I too find myself with no one to vote for.

British politics has become all about extremes.
Please can we have some sense restored?

I think in normal times I would probably vote LibDem but even though I voted remain I find their stance on Brexit unacceptable.

tempus_fugit

Dave46049 wrote: »

I've now changed my whole voting philosophy.

In my younger years I was labour as I believed that they stood up for the "common man" - then I realised that they weren't common men themselves.

I tried Plaid Cymru as I believed in self determination, however the Welsh Assembly has been a shambles and waste of good money.

Now I find in my later years that with a decent income and a nice house and way of life, the Tories offer more security for what I've built up over the years.

So I'm sorry I'm going to selfish and vote whatever make my quality of life either improve or remain as the status quo.

Also all the others don't seem to agree with Brexit and whatever my thoughts are on that, going against the result is the wrong decision - how can you believe their manifesto's if they won't stick to what the people voted for?

Strange, because as someone in a similar position I've found that the Tories of late have done exactly the OPPOSITE of that, in that they no longer offer any kind of security for people with their own homes etc. Brexit is just one example of that, hence I will be voting for whoever stops this Brexit nonsense and gets the country back to the real issues of the day.

tempus_fugit

Arklight wrote: »

Is there a point where you would actually become so ashamed of your party that you would stop voting for them? I mean, what would it would actually take?

21 MPs booted out for not wanting to follow the wild delusions of a cabal of Bullingdon 1930s comedy villains. One of those ejected, one of the most respected statesmen in British politics, and the other the grandson of Winston Churchill. Who are you going to replace him with; do you have the grandson of Goebbels warming up in the wings? I don't think anyone would be surprised.

But let's be honest. Even though Bozo The Clown is PM, half the currently incumbent Tory MPs are appearing on Channel 4 News every evening in the lobby of Parliament saying that they no longer recognise their own Party (which let's be honest, wasn't exactly a magnet to great humanitarians in the first place) and Whitehall is planning for actual starvation in November, you'd still go and vote for them in a heartbeat tomorrow. You wouldn't even look at the candidate.

So, what actually would it take? If Boris Johnson came to your house, babbled incoherently, smashed the windows of your car, handed you a P45, set fire to your shed, kicked you in the goolieknackers and walked off with your significant other - would that actually finally be the last straw? I'm genuinely curious.

Sadly most people do in fact vote in exactly this way. They just put their cross against the same party every time and then probably go home and moan about how politicians are out of touch with the public. It's very depressing.

Crashy_Time

tempus_fugit wrote: »

Sadly most people do in fact vote in exactly this way. They just put their cross against the same party every time and then probably go home and moan about how politicians are out of touch with the public. It's very depressing.

Can I ask what the "budget to zero" concept and YNAB are about?

MobileSaver

Arklight wrote: »

It's a titchy drop in an ocean compared to the money that is lost from tax avoidance to the much more successful cheats at the top of the economy.

Your hatred and jealousy for people who have more money than you is clouding your judgement and making you look very foolish.

Tax avoidance is entirely legal and is about reducing the tax you pay by following tax laws. Or are you suggesting that anyone who puts money into an ISA is a "cheat" too? :embarasse

Arklight

MobileSaver wrote: »

Your hatred and jealousy for people who have more money than you is clouding your judgement and making you look very foolish.

Tax avoidance is entirely legal and is about reducing the tax you pay by following tax laws. Or are you suggesting that anyone who puts money into an ISA is a "cheat" too? :embarasse

No, I dislike cheats, criminals, and those who take out while giving nothing back.

I appreciate you believe this to be entrepreneurialism, but some of us have a moral compass which doesn't just degenerate to demanding homeless people are locked up.

Davy_Jones_II

sevenhills wrote: »

In my view, unemployment goes down when the benefit system no longer helps people, they have no choice, but to work.

This suggests that people are currently choosing not to work, and that therefore benefits are too generous.

It should never be a possible lifestyle choice, and if it is, the state needs to change the payments to take the choice away.

MobileSaver

Arklight wrote: »

No, I dislike cheats, criminals,

I think most people do but what does that have to do with tax avoidance?

Arklight wrote: »

No, I dislike ... those who take out while giving nothing back.

Personally I think society should be helping the disabled and genuinely ill, those who find themselves in a predicament through no fault of their own, but I can see why someone like you would dislike them; your sort always want someone else to pay for everything so anyone that can't pay is a burden.

Arklight wrote: »

some of us have a moral compass which doesn't just degenerate to demanding homeless people are locked up.

Clearly you do not have a moral compass as I never said any such thing; I could not have made it any clearer that I believe criminals should be locked up regardless of whether they are homeless or living in a mansion.

How could anyone with a moral compass disagree with such a thing? You chose not to answer in the other thread, so I will ask again...

What acts that society has deemed criminal are you OK with? Shoplifting? Muggings? Armed robbery? Rape? Murder? Is there a certain level of criminality at which you agree they need to take responsibility for their own actions or should anyone who had problems as a child or ends up homeless be given a "get out of jail free" card?

Herzlos

sevenhills wrote: »

In my view, unemployment goes down when the benefit system no longer helps people, they have no choice, but to work.

In reality the opposite happens - poverty prevents people from getting back into work. The cuts to benefits are purely down to Tory ideology of "I'm alright, Jack! Why should we help those damn poor? It's all their fault!" Actual out-of-work benefits are blown out of proportion as it's a tiny amount of total government spend.



Can't afford to get to the interview?
Can't afford a suit for the interview?
Can't afford childcare to get to the job?
Can't afford to get to the actual job?
Can't afford the time to get a qualification?
Health problems due to poor nutrition and facilities?


Yes to any of those and you are completely screwed.

Fran_Klee

Herzlos wrote: »

In reality the opposite happens - poverty prevents people from getting back into work. The cuts to benefits are purely down to Tory ideology of "I'm alright, Jack! Why should we help those damn poor? It's all their fault!" Actual out-of-work benefits are blown out of proportion as it's a tiny amount of total government spend.



Can't afford to get to the interview? We''ll sub your travel costs.
Can't afford a suit for the interview? If it's a necessary for the interview we will loan you the cost.
Can't afford childcare to get to the job? We will sub you that cost.
Can't afford to get to the actual job? We''ll sub your travel costs.
Can't afford the time to get a qualification? When you're not working? Seriously? Either get your act together or lower your expectations.
Health problems due to poor nutrition and facilities? Scraping the barrel now? Again either get your act together, lower your expectations and prioritise since you're already funded living expenses.


Yes to any of those and you are completely screwed.

Responses in red.
No, poverty obviously doesn't prevent people getting back into work - otherwise we would never see a rise in the number of employed.
Self-inflicted reasons are another thing as is so often the case; instead of a new iPhone on contract buy wiser so that you can afford a loaf of bread & something to go on it.