A Question for Tory Supporters

sevenhills

SpiderLegs wrote: »

Excuse me this is a thread about why tories vote tory. Can you stick to that or Sailtheworld will tell you off.

Things are happening now, to break the stranglehold that the Tories have.
They are likely to lose the Mayoral election next year, either Rory Stewart will win, or he will split the Conservative vote.
If people understand that the Tories may not win, they could vote for an alternative.

SpiderLegs

sevenhills wrote: »

Things are happening now, to break the stranglehold that the Tories have.
They are likely to lose the Mayoral election next year, either Rory Stewart will win, or he will split the Conservative vote.
If people understand that the Tories may not win, they could vote for an alternative.

The tories don’t have a stranglehold in London. They are likely to not win the London mayoral election regardless of what Rory Stewart does. So I’m not sure your point makes any sense.

Arklight

The electoral fault lines have changed. The Lib Dems are now the Remain Tories. Swinson is more committed to ignoring the referendum, austerity and deregulation than most of the Tory MPs who have just been fired.

The Tories are now effectively UKIP. The thing David Cameron wanted to avoid by calling the referendum is the sole consequence of the referendum.

He described UKIP as a "bunch off oddballs and closet racists." Which is what the Tories now are, more extremely right wing and unappealing than even that, but there are millions in Middle England who see Johnson as the leader they've always wanted. The pugnacious bullying face of the England they have always wanted to live in.

So that leaves Labour. If you're a Remainer who doesn't fancy starving disabled people to death, or a Leaver who can't stomach the sight of Johnson and his blackshirt movement, they are currently the only option. But Corbyn will have to pull off a blinder to get this message out, ride both horses, and overcome the 70% of the Parliamentary Labour Party who would throw their own mothers in front of a train if they thought it would stop a non-Blairite winning an election.

Poor_Leno

Arklight wrote: »

If you're a Remainer who doesn't fancy starving disabled people to death, or a Leaver who can't stomach the sight of Johnson and his blackshirt movement, they are currently the only option. But Corbyn will have to pull off a blinder to get this message out, ride both horses, and overcome the 70% of the Parliamentary Labour Party who would throw their own mothers in front of a train if they thought it would stop a non-Blairite winning an election.

And what my friend is the option if you consider yourself more or less in the centre of politics, with no left or right leaning (or hardened) position, who may not have have voted to Leave but believes in democracy and accepting the result and leave, with no second or 'confirmatory' referendum as its been said many times by, I think, Emily Thornberry. I don't think I can accept voting for any party at this moment. The tories have lurched too far to the right. Labour basically want to wash their hands of any kind of decision that has to be made by either not voting for a GE / no confidence motion or if they do get power, negotiate a !!!! deal, campaign against it and ask the people decide (!!!!!! the point is in doing that apart from abstaining themselves of all accountability by saying its what the people want is the only conclusion I can draw).

I don't see any need for asking us twice for what we want. I was part of the 48, but accept the result of the 52. We need to leave and get on with it, but in a sensible manner. I don't remember things being as unsavoury as this 3 years ago, the Norway model was perfectly endorsable as far as both Farage and Rees-Mogg were concerned. Why is no deal all of a sudden the default and preferred option of this government? We need sensible politicans, right now all I see is left and right bickering and a complete lack of sensible individuals trying to reach across the divide while at the same time not crowing some soundbite whether its "do or die" or "we must revoke and stop brexit". Neither is going to bridge the gaping chasm that's been left in the centre of British politics. A centre that I am feeling completely without a home to vote for. Labour certainly is not it. And neither are any others.

If Labour think they can go and negotiate a better deal then for christs sake lets just have the general election, lets see them gain power then they can go and negotiate and come back with this amazing deal that works for all sides. And because they will have negotiated the best deal ever they don't need to go back to the people cos we already told them democratically to leave, we would have also voted for them to be the largest party and take accountability for making political decisions. There is no effing reason whatsoever for a confirmatory vote in that instance, stop asking the people to decide matters when we do this on at least a four yearly basis. You provide the manifesto pledges, we elect your individuals based on that. I just wish these politicians would start doing what taxpayers pay them to do.

Brexit winds me up no end. We really must move on and its high time politicians on all sides faced the challenges and do what should have been done after the last general election instead of all this parliamentary bickering that's gone on for far too long now.

Sailtheworld

SpiderLegs wrote: »

Excuse me this is a thread about why tories vote tory. Can you stick to that or Sailtheworld will tell you off.

It's difficult when the answer to the question why do you vote Tory is because of the reds under the bed.

Arklight

Poor_Leno wrote: »

And what my friend is the option if you consider yourself more or less in the centre of politics, with no left or right leaning (or hardened) position, who may not have have voted to Leave but believes in democracy and accepting the result and leave...

I don't think you are alone in that view. I can't help you with your voting choices I am afraid. I voted Remain but I would rather have a Corbyn Brexit than a Johnson Remain.

My personal prediction is that things will change quite radically on the 31st when Johnson misses the withdrawal date. He won't be trusted to deliver Brexit at that point and will spend the GE trying to fend off Prime Minister (of the People) Farage.

Labour will then (presumably) campaign on a Labour government with a second referendum. Although that would still be a bitter pill for Labour Leave constituencies, almost 13 million people voted for Corbyn's Labour in 2017 and they may consider having him in power first to sweeten the pill enough that they can stomach a second referendum later.

Few Labour Leave voters want to see Boris Johnson in charge and it's fanciful to think they are leaving for the Tories. Labour is losing support to the Lib Dems.

Poor_Leno

Arklight wrote: »

Few Labour Leave voters want to see Boris Johnson in charge and it's fanciful to think they are leaving for the Tories. Labour is losing support to the Lib Dems.

I agree that Labour arn't losing voters to the Tories, but up north and in Wales they will lose them to the BP. For sure they will lose them to the LDs in London, but I don't think it should be underestimated that there are plenty of Labour voters who do not like the thought of another referendum even more so than me because they voted to leave and feel Corbyn and Labour are "off message" - that's quite a key thing I think.

Honesty, anyone out there who is a Labour voter and remotely considering voting for BP should seriously consider the wider consequence of electing that choice. Farage has form in the past to the ideas of selling off/franchising out large parts of our NHS. It'd be foolish to go into this GE on a single issue basis. This GE is much, much more crucial than that.

My biggest fear really is Labour voters up North and in Wales handing the Tories/BP a fairly large coalition majority that would be very hard right in its position. I really hope I am wrong and that more people are not so easily fooled by Farage's likeable, electoral bravado.

ukcarper

Poor_Leno wrote: »

I agree that Labour arn't losing voters to the Tories, but up north and in Wales they will lose them to the BP. For sure they will lose them to the LDs in London, but I don't think it should be underestimated that there are plenty of Labour voters who do not like the thought of another referendum even more so than me because they voted to leave and feel Corbyn and Labour are "off message" - that's quite a key thing I think.

Honesty, anyone out there who is a Labour voter and remotely considering voting for BP should seriously consider the wider consequence of electing that choice. Farage has form in the past to the ideas of selling off/franchising out large parts of our NHS. It'd be foolish to go into this GE on a single issue basis. This GE is much, much more crucial than that.

My biggest fear really is Labour voters up North and in Wales handing the Tories/BP a fairly large coalition majority that would be very hard right in its position. I really hope I am wrong and that more people are not so easily fooled by Farage's likeable, electoral bravado.

I fit into the category of centre left voter but I did vote remain, I also accept the result of referendum and feel we must leave in a meaningful way. I will not vote for present Labour Party but I won't vote Tory, I will not vote. The loss of my vote will not effect my Tory candidates changes but what would effect be in leave Labour constituencies.

Arklight

ukcarper wrote: »

I fit into the category of centre left voter but I did vote remain, I also accept the result of referendum and feel we must leave in a meaningful way. I will not vote for present Labour Party but I won't vote Tory, I will not vote. The loss of my vote will not effect my Tory candidates changes but what would effect be in leave Labour constituencies.

Are you sure about that? You've complained about every redistributive anti-austerity policy Labour have proposed, and you are pro-Brexit, even though you presumably know it will heap more hardship on those who can least bear it.

Those who have already suffered from a decade of targeted, poor hating, Tory ideology. Which you aren't concerned enough to vote against.

Maybe you should take a quiz!

https://uk.isidewith.com/

ukcarper

Arklight wrote: »

Are you sure about that? You've complained about every redistributive anti-austerity policy Labour have proposed, and you are pro-Brexit, even though you presumably know it will heap more hardship on those who can least bear it.

Those who have already suffered from a decade of targeted, poor hating, Tory ideology. Which you aren't concerned enough to vote against.

Maybe you should take a quiz!

https://uk.isidewith.com/

Yes I'm and can you point me to a post I've made complaining about redistribution. As you can see I voted remain, but you can't ask the country its opinion and then completely ignore it, you need to remember that Labour voted to hold referendum.

I did test and Lib/Den came top and if it wasn't for their stance on brexit I would probably vote for them.