A Question for Tory Supporters

Arklight

Davy_Jones_II wrote: »

No, you repeating a lie doesn’t make it true.

The bottom three quintiles pay nothing in at all when correctly calculated on a net basis. The second-top quintile pays a few thousand a year, and the top quintile pays nearly the whole tax take.

If we narrow it down from all taxes to I come tax, the top 1% of earners earn 14% of the wages but pay 28% of the tax.

I can post the ONS figures if you aren’t able to look them up yourself; where are you pulling your fantasy figures from?

As I’ve pointed out before, part of the push for me to move abroad was the complete lack of appreciation from people like you towards people like me who paid in huge amounts every year.

I used to be happy to do so, it was a fair way to organise the burden, but now that I see the attitude of net recipients, which is sneering and insults, you can just fend for yourself. I won’t contribute any more.

Firstly, you are highlighting the problem not the solution. Your rant is an illustration of an unbalanced economy hardwired by inequality, and the lazy entitlement of the (relative) few who see ordinary people as scroungers.

You are (willfully) ignoring the problem of tax evasion in both corporate and private incomes, that costs the UK billions each year. Roughly half of all the land in the UK is owned by less than 1% of the population while home ownership becomes a pipe dream for millions. You are ignoring this because you believe it benefits you, and hang everyone else.

I wish you well in your emigration and would urge you to make sure whichever door you exit from does not interfere with your derrière.

Arklight

SpiderLegs wrote: »

Of course, anyone who knows anything knows this -


So your usual bleating about anything that isn’t based on 1970s socialist claptrap is in this case a pointless whinge against international standards.

3/10 getting better, just.

If someone is without full time work in Germany, or France, or most of our local competitors, but would like a job, they are classed as unemployed and count towards the unemployment statistics.

If someone is without full time employment but would like a job in the UK, they may be canvassed if they've actively sought work in the past few weeks. If they say no, because they've given up. No, because they're on a zero hours contract ekeing out a substandard living on tax credits, or no because they're on a bogus training course and are therefore excluded, they are considered not unemployed.

The UK's employment figures fool no-one apart from credulous English right wingers. They are no better, and in some cases worse, than our European friends and neighbors.

If you were better informed you would know this, but you aren't so you don't. Therefore here is one of (many) sources that will educate you.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/oct/29/sparkling-jobless-figures-mask-real-picture-uk-economy-unemployed

As the Right are famous for their open minds, their temperate demeanours, and thirst for knowledge, I am sure you will enjoy your journey of discovery.

SpiderLegs

Arklight wrote: »

....I am sure you will enjoy your journey of discovery.

I don’t need to discover anything, because the incoming Corbyn government will be changing the calculation method for unemployment so it fits with your highly enlightened view.

They will be doing this won’t they? After all they wouldn’t want to be seen as credulous English right wingers.

I look forward to reading about this proposed change in the labour manifesto.

phillw

SpiderLegs wrote: »

I don’t need to discover anything, because the incoming Corbyn government will be changing the calculation method for unemployment so it fits with your highly enlightened view.

It's fine, the Boris lying machine is in full swing and conning voters into thinking that the conservatives have a clue how to save the country from the far right.

SpiderLegs

phillw wrote: »

It's fine, the Boris lying machine is in full swing and conning voters into thinking that the conservatives have a clue how to save the country from the far right.

Don’t be so defeatist Phil. Unlike you I am very confident that Jezza is going to be our next PM.

Seabee42

So housing costs. This has been on the rise for a long time but an increase in population of 10million (over 80% of which is due to immigrants according the Office of nation statistics) has not helped. Note neither of the main parties is doing anything to change this trend and neither party has been responsible for building affordable housing in anything like the numbers to house these people (if you even believe immigrants should be housed by the state).


The prices have not "crashed" in 20 years due to both demand, nearly zero interest rates and of course no forced selling.


No private house building firm will build property at cost so unless the law is changed to make land cheaper (a finite quantity exists and destroying farm land for housing causes other issues like food supply something the UK is also terrible at) there is little chance loads of cheap housing will ever appear. Expecting politicians of either party to fix this when they have got rich over expenses and property rises seems incredibly hopeful.

Dee_Best

Arklight's argument of higher-than-stated unemployment in the UK falls down for two reasons.
Firstly the EU dictate exactly who counts as unemployed across all member countries.
Stating that disability benefit holders would push up the number of unemployed is, simply, a lie and the chart I include at the end from the EU themselves should explain why.

Second, UK revenue from Income Tax jumped by £27 billion in four years up to 2018/9, and remember that is after raising the threshold at which people pay tax.

Combine those with record numbers in employment (yes full-time too) and such claims as those made by Arklight look at best questionable; ridiculous is probably more accurate.




Before anyone asks, officially Germany had 7.8 million severely disabled people living there in 2018.
https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Society-Environment/Health/Disabled-People/_node.html

leviathan

Herzlos wrote: »

You've got a pretty broken notion of poverty if you think that the poor in this country are prioritizing iPhones over food. I know it's a pretty popular right-wing trope that the poor are all living in expensive council houses for free watching 90" TV's with Sky and playing with new phones on £50/month contracts but the reality is completely different.

It's not the poor that are living in such a situation. It's those that know how the play the benefits system. Usually the 3rd or 4th generation of "unemployed" that are milking all the ways to get that extra cash. Will have at least one family member classed as disabled (probably obese), typically one of the kids so they can get a disability car and some extra payouts. Will be taking up a lot of doctors time trying to get diagnosed with something that brings more benefits, will complain they are being discriminated against until they get what they want.



The real poor are those people that have no knowledge of how to play the system and so they get the bare minimum. They are those that probably are out of work but have had a job, had illness or been made redundant and things have got on top of them.
They've likely been paying a mortgage or had private landlords - not paying the low subsidised rent that the benefits for life folks are able to obtain. They've been living from pay cheque to pay cheque and have had to pay for council tax and childcare since they dont qualify for freebies - or actually care about their kids beyond them being a way to get a child benefit payment.

These are the real poor people in the UK today.



There are two distinct groups of what the media call poor. Sadly they are all lumped into one in order to be villified and politicised. But they are very differnt types of people. One group isn't scum and is worthy of help like food banks. The other group will go to the food bank purely because it's free food.



I'm all for helping one of those groups but I'm also fully aware of the first groups existance - it's hard to miss them in my area. So dont you dare pretend that they dont exist and it's a all a right wing fabrication. For those of us unlike you that choose to open our blinkers they are plain to see. TV programmes have even and often glorified them !!

ffacoffipawb

SpiderLegs wrote: »

Don’t be so defeatist Phil. Unlike you I am very confident that Jezza is going to be our next PM.

God help us if he does.

Theft of 10% of private companies is abhorrent and is probably just the start.

No wonder Jihadi Jezz wants to leave the EU as appropriation of private property is illegal.

Labour, misery for the many.

leviathan

ffacoffipawb wrote: »

Labour, misery for the many.

Only some. Jeremy is ok, he's a millionaire with a gold plated pension.