A Question for Tory Supporters

prowla

lvader wrote: »

Once they decided to defer to the people they have a duty respect the peoples vote. Parliament also voted to leave with or without a deal and that is still the current law.

Parliament has spent three years trying to put blockers in the way and has finagled things to the current situation.

Arklight

prowla wrote: »

Parliament has spent three years trying to put blockers in the way and has finagled things to the current situation.

Yes and no. The Tory front benches' continual (and illegal) efforts to bypass parliament didn't help.

I can understand Brexit voters from Leave constituencies thinking that though. Especially if their MP is one of the blockers.

phillw

prowla wrote: »

Parliament has spent three years trying to put blockers in the way and has finagled things to the current situation.

If by parliament you mean the Conservatives and the ERG then yes I agree with you.

If it hadn't been for the negotiations being infected by the ERGs influence then it would have been possible to negotiate something that could have been passed. But they would have lost all their old white male donors & the party would have disappeared.

That is why we haven't left the EU yet.

lvader wrote: »

Once they decided to defer to the people they have a duty respect the peoples vote. Parliament also voted to leave with or without a deal and that is still the current law.

No, that isn't how politics works in this country. You vote for someone based on their personality and hope that it is similar enough personality to you that they'll make decisions you can live with. Things people say during elections aren't binding, they are only to give an idea of their personality.

The current law is that the PM has to request an extension if he can't get a deal that the commons can agree to.

Enterprise_1701C

There is one reason why we are in this position.

Corbyn.

He considers it more important to play politics than to actually allow the country to get on with things.

He is currently avoiding a general election, the one he has requested 50 times this year. He believes that if we do not get out of the eu before a general election we will blame Boris. He must think we are stupid, it is self evidently down to his cronies, and down to Bercow too admittedly.

Corbyn has been desperate to get out of the eu for years, this is why his policy on Brexit it to sit on the fence, leaving is the only way he could nationalise the country for the massively low costs that he seems to want to, severely undervaluing the shares.

If Corbyn would just grow up and realise that he is the sort of dinosaur that should have been extinct millions of years ago, and stop playing with the future of the country to try to get his own way, then this country could get on with things and start to heal.

lvader

phillw wrote: »

No, that isn't how politics works in this country.

It's exactly how a referendum works.

Enterprise_1701C

Herzlos wrote: »

It's not. Corbyn is none of those, and he isn't in complete control of the party either - he does what the party wants, as he should.

Corbyn is all of those things, and his closest ally McDonnell is a self proclaimed Marxist (even if he does have a second home).

Oh, and if he does what the party wants, why did he not leave when his party had a vote of no confidence in him, which he lost 172–40?

And he is not in control of his party because the boss of Momentum, along with McClusky, are playing him like a puppet.

Arklight

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

There is one reason why we are in this position.

Corbyn.

He considers it more important to play politics than to actually allow the country to get on with things.

He is currently avoiding a general election, the one he has requested 50 times this year. He believes that if we do not get out of the eu before a general election we will blame Boris. He must think we are stupid, it is self evidently down to his cronies, and down to Bercow too admittedly.

Corbyn has been desperate to get out of the eu for years, this is why his policy on Brexit it to sit on the fence, leaving is the only way he could nationalise the country for the massively low costs that he seems to want to, severely undervaluing the shares.

If Corbyn would just grow up and realise that he is the sort of dinosaur that should have been extinct millions of years ago, and stop playing with the future of the country to try to get his own way, then this country could get on with things and start to heal.

Yes it's all Corbyn's fault. Do you remember when he called that general election and lost so many seats he could only scrape together a government with a half dozen fundamentalist fruitloops from the DUP.

Then he got a trade deal with the EU most of his own party wouldn't vote for, so he fired himself, replaced himself with Boris Johnson's, deselected 20 odd of his own MPs ensuring he now has a completely impotent minority government, publicly misdirected the queen, broke the law, and spends most days being humiliated while begging for an election so he can quit.

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Conina

Arklight wrote: »

Yes it's all Corbyn's fault. Do you remember when he called that general election and lost so many seats he could only scrape together a government with a half dozen fundamentalist fruitloops from the DUP.

Then he got a trade deal with the EU most of his own party wouldn't vote for, so he fired himself, replaced himself with Boris Johnson's, deselected 20 odd of his own MPs ensuring he now has a completely impotent minority government, publicly misdirected the queen, broke the law, and spends most days being humiliated while begging for an election so he can quit.

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

And despite all that you mention, lies and exaggerations included, Boris Johnson's popularity is surging ahead while Jeremy Corbyn is regularly the most despised political party leader as this in today's Telegraph makes very clear.

Jeremy Corbyn has been urged to “detach himself from the cult" around him and “get in amongst the general population” by Labour MPs as a new poll reveals he is less popular than Jo Swinson.

Asked who would make the best Prime Minister, 41 per cent chose Boris Johnson, with 21 per cent favouring the Lib Dem leader and just 18 per cent choosing Mr Corbyn.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/09/26/jeremy-corbyn-urged-detach-cronies-falling-behind-jo-swinson/

ROTFL at the Tories seems more than a bit odd in light of that & in light of the infighting in Labour that seems to be tearing the party asunder but I suppose haters gotta hate.

DaMoon

Being a Tory supporter is very much about choosing the lesser of all the evils, even though they are pretty evil. But what are the alternatives? Corbyn appears to have released a manifesto based on disregarding property rights. It goes something like this: "I know, let's make landlords sell the properties to tenants at XYZ price against the landlord's wishes. After that, we'll start on the private schools and take their property to enforce our education agenda, even though the said property is privately owned". Dangerous sentiments and a potential assault on free will, in my opinion. Swinson - she speaks well but her position on Brexit, to ignore the vote, is precarious. If she were tempted to change this to having another referendum, I would be very interested as I believe she might be a route to saving the union. I voted to leave the EU, but preserving the union is more important to me, and I would be willing to lose a second EU referendum to keep us all as one.

MEM62

Arklight wrote: »

Is there a point where you would actually become so ashamed of your party that you would stop voting for them? I mean, what would it would actually take?

The answer is very simple and probably the same for most people - it would take for a better alternative to present itself. If there was a credible alternative out there I would consider it. After all, the Conservative party are far from covering themselves in glory. But who do we have?

The Brexit party - a one trick pony with a single policy and no experience of serious government.

The Lib Dems - a party that have no clue what democracy is and have pledged to ignore the will of the people of this country expressed in the referendum.

Any of the Nationalist Parties - dangerous in the extreme.

Labour - don't even know where to begin with this lot. Suffice to say I would rather crawl naked over broken glass than vote for Corbin.