A Question for Tory Supporters

Arklight

prowla wrote: »

None of the parties currently in Parliament are fit for purpose.

• The Tories are like a bunch of cats in a sack.
• Labour can't even unite themselves, let alone unite the country.
• The LibDems purpose in life is to overturn the democratic wishes of the country.
• The Greens seem hell-bent on alienating anybody who doesn't live in a tent and eats turnips.

They are a bit of a disgrace, in all honesty.

It's because FPTP politics has come apart at the seams. It kind of worked where how you voted depended on where you lived (if you can call 70% of the country always being unrepresented by government) but it no longer reflects the political make up of the UK.

Most of our politicians are not capable of consensual decision making because all of their training is based on shouting other people down and trying to make them look stupid. Something the UK can do with less of.

triathlon

MaxiRobriguez wrote: »

This is a money forum, people come on here typically have, or want to have, a sound financial footing. Such people would vote Tory because it has in the years gone by been in their interest to do so. There's no shame in that. What is weird is the people in the midlands and the North who have fewer assets who are deserting Labour to move to the Tories, despite ten years of Tory government. Doesn't make sense to me.

However, you do have to wonder if this current Government (as in, the last six weeks or so) would be the best party to preserve our capital. Forgetting Brexit for just a moment, of which a hard Brexit would likely knock on asset prices, the real problem is the blatant lack of regard for process, order and democracy the likes of Cummings and Johnson are showing. Proroguing of parliament to shut down debate, supporting filibustering in the Lords to prevent discussion, suggesting they won't elevate a bill passed by both houses to royal ascent and simply ignore the law.

Ignoring the fact that such things are an affront to democracy, what is that going to do for inward investment and productivity after Brexit if investors have zero trust in UK order? Profits down, lending costs up and hard to come by at the same time.

I'm not a Tory voter but I feel sorry for those who are genuine Tory voters because their party have been taken over by the madhouse. They make Corbyn's Labour look righteous, disciplined and a government in waiting. But that's Boris for you, he's lied his way to the top and thrown friends and colleagues under the bus to do so and now he's here there's no plan and a lot more scrutiny.

I expect the Tories to narrowly be the largest party in the next GE which will happen in November, but they'll be in a hung parliament, struggle to get anything done such that it inevitably splits, with the front bench and ERG merging with the Brexit party lot and the remaining moderates trying to save what's left of their party.

Nice one Boris.

What is mad is believing that Britain is an uncaring society that dumps on the poor and where the top 1% hold all the wealth, and that Corbyn, Abbott and McDonnell are the answer. We are paying right now in a near full employment society what is a ludicrous sum of money on welfare. Can you imagine what will happen in the UK if we are mad enough to leave the EU and worse still vote Corbyn in and our economy tanks and genuine people losing their jobs and unable to get another double or even treble the welfare bill.
Anyone who believes that the present Tories are "far right" are insane, their problem is being too left wing, yes I mean that.

benbay001

Im not really sure you have an actual question in your post. It just seems like a rant against the actions of a government you don't like.


Boris is trying to enact the vote from 2016, which has now dragged on for far too long. Parliament and his some of his MPs are still hell bent on allowing any meaningful Brexit, so yes, I hope he does take a hardline on Tory party MPs, as its quite clear that the Tory party membership and Tory party electorate is pro leave.

lvader

Arklight wrote: »

Capitalism is an economic system not an ideology. The fact you appear to believe left wing politics in some way wants to do eliminate money and private ownership points to the fact you know little about it.

John McDonnell is open about being a Marxist, his policies of taking away company assets as well as private property are exactly what you would expect from a Marxist.

Thrugelmir

Sailtheworld wrote: »

OK so a balanced budget is your preferred measure of competence

No, I said at least.

Brown inherited the position. Didn't create it. Budgets influence the future not today.

prowla

Arklight wrote: »

It's because FPTP politics has come apart at the seams. It kind of worked where how you voted depended on where you lived (if you can call 70% of the country always being unrepresented by government) but it no longer reflects the political make up of the UK.

Most of our politicians are not capable of consensual decision making because all of their training is based on shouting other people down and trying to make them look stupid. Something the UK can do with less of.

I tend to agree; I had hoped that the coalition and small/zero majority situation might've forced them to think about cooperating, but they have failed.


The downside of the PR process (as used in our EU elections) is that votes are aggregated to elect representatives on a pyramid basis, so somebody at the top of the pile is a dead cert and the ordinary voter doesn't have a say in it.


I guess no system is perfect, sigh....

Fran_Klee

markharding557 wrote: »

With appropriate trade and political agreements secured which is what our useless politicians were unable or unwilling to do.

"Unwilling" it is since they are so blatantly putting the EU ahead of their own country.
When MP's like that are communicating with the EU to get reassurances before they make a vote in parliament to obstruct the government it is obvious where their loyalties lay.
Sadly it is not with Britain nor with the 17.4 million leave voters.
If it was with Britain they would agree to a general election whereby again the voter would decide.
But they'll try to tell you they are being democratic.

Sailtheworld

Thrugelmir wrote: »

No, I said at least.

Brown inherited the position. Didn't create it. Budgets influence the future not today.

You still don't seem to understand economic cycles. Probably a bit post WWIi economy theory for you.

Barring a recession there will be a balanced budget in 5 - 8 years. It matters not a jot who is in power. Then there will be a recession and whoever is in charge will lose an election and so the cycle goes. That's because over the last 25 years you couldn't fit a cigarette paper between labour and tory policy.

Your thing for Gordon Brown is preventing you from seeing the wood from the trees.

Cakeguts

The problem I have with Marxism is that it doesn't take into account human nature and because of this it rewards people who have made bad choices.



For example the people who don't have children tend to have more disposable income in each income bracket than those that do. Those who don't have children pay through tax, child benefit and education for those that do which is a good thing to do. However there is a point where those that don't have children should not be expected to give up their wealth in order to pay for those who have had children as a bad choice. By that I mean choosing to become pregnant at a young age when you don't have suitable housing or a job that will pay for the child.



This isn't about wealth distribution it is about choices. No one in the UK forces anyone else to choose to have children at 18 while unemployed and with nowhere to live. If you do that you have made a choice.



The people who often don't have any choices are the disabled in our society. But Marxist policies don't make their lives any better either because they reduce all levels of society to poverty by rewarding the bad choices. They work on the basis that no one is entitled to anything except the leaders who are entitled to everything.



You cannot give everyone equal wealth. If everyone in the UK got paid exactly the same wage some people would still come out with more in savings. Some people would still spend every penny they get on things that they don't need. That is human nature.



You also cannot work out levels of poverty by comparing families with each other. With a certain income a family of 5 children is always going to have less disposable income than a family with only one child. The family of 5 children has chosen to be less well off and that it their choice.



What I would like to be done in this country is for their to be less emphasis on people who are making bad choices and more emphasis on people who don't have choices. There is very little choice in housing available if you need single person supported housing because of disability. Compared to single disabled people all families in the UK are well off and none of them are living in poverty because they had that choice of children in the first place they could have chosen not to have them. The single disabled people don't even have that choice.


We should stop rewarding people for having more children than they can afford. The planet doesn't need any more people.



I am not worried about climate change because I am not a member of the climate change cult thank goodness. I actually don't support cult activity of any sort. If you know that the earth warms every 1000 years or so you don't worry about it getting a bit warmer again.



All political parties seem to be intent on creating a nanny state where no one is allowed to live with the consequences of a bad choice.

Cakeguts

I am generally very annoyed with most of our MPs at the moment. Twice the voting public have shown that the majority of those who bothered to vote want to leave the EU. Twice once in the referendum and again in the EU MEP elections and still there are those MPs who are trying to remain in the EU. I have never know so many self centred, narcisstic, MPs as we seem to have now who are all trying to put what they want above the people who not only elected them but also pay their salaries. It is disgusting. I would sack the lot of them.