Electric vehicles miles per KWh

GreatApe

Solarchaser wrote: »

Ahh yes back to the old "the grid is dirty so EV's are dirty" argument.

Its lazy, and obviously flawed.
I dont get my energy from China or the USA, so the point is .... unsurprisingly irrelevant.

But it's ok, software, software, software:D

Windows xp was launched with more than 13 million known issues, but yeah, software will solve the world.

All we need to do is control.... alt, delete

Software will become sentient in due course and will vastly outclass the total sum of human knowledge and endeavour. Most likely this is the last century of humankind as biology. Puts this nonsense about fossil fuel causing the planet to warm a degree or two into perspective

Solarchaser

Solar energy is completely free.... it's the catching it that costs money.

GreatApe

Solarchaser wrote: »

Solar energy is completely free.... it's the catching it that costs money.

By the same logic

Fossil fuels are free
It's the catching it that costs money


This is one of the things that mildly annoy me about humanity
The inability to understand that more or less everything is human labor and knowledge in one form or another. A solar panel and kit is X hours of human labor from mining the minerals to making the factory to the research that was needed to everything in the chain. Likewise a coal power station is X hours of human labor from making the station to mining the coal to everything.
Money is just s representation of this human labor along the very long and complex chains involved. Also we do not value labor exactly the same so don't quite things costing X hours of labor to purchase instead we use currency. Re solar power it's no more or less free than coal both are just human labor and knowledge transformed into coal electricity or solar electricity.

Solarchaser

You would have to be really really reaching to get there

GreatApe

Solarchaser wrote: »

You would have to be really really reaching to get there

Nope, everything is 'free' once you've made it...
By your logic :rotfl:

If it takes 1 billion man hours to make a million PV kits that last 30 years...
Well you could use the same 1 billion man hours to make a coal plant a coal mine and mine it for 30 years...

If you want to call the solar free then the coal is free too and so is everything else

Of course in reality people don't use your definition of 'free' so neither coal nor solar is free

GreatApe

Solarchaser wrote: »

You would have to be really really reaching to get there

Not at all

The oil is there
You just need to build an oil rig
Once you have the oil rig you just need a little bit of tender loving care and maintenance and it's 'free' oil power

In the same way the sun is there
You just need to build a sun rig
Once you have the sun rig you just need a little bit of tender loving care and maintenance and it's 'free' sun power

Of course this is going by your definition of 'free'
In normal functioning business and costing people don't ignore the cost of 'catch it' which is both oil and sunshine is the biggest part of the cost



:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

ABrass

All this rubbish about how BEVs need to be available for less than 15k is pointless for now.

They will get there in the end. As the prices drop, as they will, they will make more and more ICE models defunct. The cheap urban runabout may hang on as the last one to die but it will die.

Hell the Ford Ka has disappeared and they're killing off the Fiesta and Focus in the US. Maybe I'm giving them too much time.

GreatApe

I will actual adopt your idea of free in a few decades

All we have to do is invent general AI and then everything becomes free

It's like a drop of life. Place a few seedlings of life (say some bacteria) on a new earth like planet and wait.

Life will grow exponentially and in a few hundred million years time you go from single cell bacteria to lifeforms creating the internet and spaceships. Only with AI it will not take a hundred million years but a few hundred million seconds to advance as far from us as we have from the single cell bacteria that was our own creator

ABrass

Von Neumann called and wants his theories back

GreatApe

ABrass wrote: »

All this rubbish about how BEVs need to be available for less than 15k is pointless for now.

They will get there in the end. As the prices drop, as they will, they will make more and more ICE models defunct. The cheap urban runabout may hang on as the last one to die but it will die.

Hell the Ford Ka has disappeared and they're killing off the Fiesta and Focus in the US. Maybe I'm giving them too much time.

That's not the point of this thread
Given enough time everything will happen
Humans will become cyborgs this century or die out
That is a certainty

The point of this thread was to point out BEVs need more electricity than most people assume she to charging losses and standing losses and to some extent the fact that they are charged by marginal generation. But don't worry I'm not as anal as some others on this board so feel free to diverge from the opening post that's more or less a given in any discussion