Electric vehicles miles per KWh

zeupater

JKenH wrote: »

Interested to know whether you get much difference in mikes per kWh if you do vary your driving style. I was thinking that as long as you stay off the brakes it wouldn’t vary as much as an ICE. Obviously high speed equals high drag but assuming you keep to speed limits does the actual rate of acceleration have much bearing?

Edit: how does town driving compare with open road for economy?

Hi

As it seems you're not open to acceptance of anything that's being offered by those with EVs then what's the point .... book an extended test drive & find out for yourself!

Anyway, for those actually interested miles/kWh & driving style ...

.... a TM3 recently set a production vehicle open road world distance record at speed in Germany using regular public charging infrastructure ... over 1700miles in 24hours at an average road speed of over 100mph & averaging over 70mph including charge times .... achieving around 2miles/kWh

... at the other end of the scale, a TM3 achieved a production vehicle distance record of over 600miles on a single charge on public roads travelling at low speeds (<30mph) .... achieving over 9miles/kWh ...

Regarding repetitive braking in urban areas, that's just where the EV trounces ICE vehicles .... just as in ICEs, you use lots of power to accelerate mass and enough power to balance/overcome forces to maintain velocity but the EV has the ability to recover a proportion of the energy consumed in acceleration and return it to the battery with the added advantage of no idling of drivetrain mechanical components when stationary ....

Braking hard overloads the rate at which generated power can diverted to the battery, so it's a wasteful act as the excess energy is simply lost as heat, brake steady in advance & the EV efficiency rises considerably - accelerate like an idiot in many of the current generation of EVs and it's not energy reserves that you should be concerned with depleting ... if you're not used to controlling a powerful vehicle, you're likely to wrap yourself & an expensive lump of metal around something more solid & relatively immovable! ...

HTH
Z

Martyn1981

EricMears wrote: »

But of course if you could only replace 1,000 miles you'd only have a saving of £100 pa which wouldn't cover very much at all.

Thanks again, but I forgot to mention fuel economy. Our Zafira 1.6 petrol averages about 30mpg, as most driving is city driving. Plus she's a large lady (the car, not Wifey).

So 5,000 miles probably equates to around 150+ gallons, so around £800?

Leccy in the summer should be 'free', so let's say 600kWh at 15p* import during bottom six months, though again, some selective choosing of sunny days to recharge might help, but let's say £100 for now.

So a saving of £700pa. I think that's worth investigating further, yes?

I mentioned it to Wifey and she was quite keen too.


*Longer term I'd consider a battery, something put on hold when I realised a much larger batt might be better for ASHP and BEV. Also E7 would make sense (especially with batt) as most daytime consumption would become PV - potentially 12 months of the year if I can add some steep pitched south facing panels too. Nice package ..... so to speak.

JKenH

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Thanks again, but I forgot to mention fuel economy. Our Zafira 1.6 petrol averages about 30mpg, as most driving is city driving. Plus she's a large lady (the car, not Wifey).

So 5,000 miles probably equates to around 150+ gallons, so around £800?

Leccy in the summer should be 'free', so let's say 600kWh at 15p* import during bottom six months, though again, some selective choosing of sunny days to recharge might help, but let's say £100 for now.

So a saving of £700pa. I think that's worth investigating further, yes?

I mentioned it to Wifey and she was quite keen too.


*Longer term I'd consider a battery, something put on hold when I realised a much larger batt might be better for ASHP and BEV. Also E7 would make sense (especially with batt) as most daytime consumption would become PV - potentially 12 months of the year if I can add some steep pitched south facing panels too. Nice package ..... so to speak.

Given your particular circumstances might it be worth hanging on until V2H becomes available? Kill two birds with one stone.

1961Nick

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Thanks. Very (very) rough guess, we'd only need the Zafira for taking out more than one dog, long trips, and carrying large items, like wood, bricks etc etc..

So, we (mainly Wifey) do about 8k pa, and most trips are 3-5 miles and back, then some, say 20 - 30 miles, but only a few are in the hundreds.

Could also plan around sunny days to leave it plugged in for a recharge on a granny cable.

Let's guess at 5k miles all well within a low range BEV?

Hi Mart, with such a low annual mileage & a surplus of solar energy, you could probably charge a leaf for nothing 6 months of the year & make a significant contribution during 2 months. You would probably have to purchase 1MW during winter which would cost £50 on the Octopus Go tariff. The Zafira must be costing £1200 pa in fuel? A used Leaf financed over 5 years wouldn't actually cost that much more than you'd save on fuel. If V2H arrives any time soon, you'd be close to cashflow 'evens'.

There'd probably also be VED & insurance savings on a Leaf?

Edit: Just read a bit further & seen that the Zafira does 30mpg.....the fuel saving alone should pay for a used Leaf over 5 years with a mileage of 8000 pa.

You have mentioned 8000 & 5000 miles pa....not sure which it is?

EricMears

1961Nick wrote: »

. . . . . There'd probably also be VED & insurance savings on a Leaf?

Edit: Just read a bit further & seen that the Zafira does 30mpg.....the fuel saving alone should pay for a used Leaf over 5 years with a mileage of 8000 pa.

You have mentioned 8000 & 5000 miles pa....not sure which it is?

I suspect he means that his total annual mileage is 8000 but needs to keep the Zafira running for 3000 of them ?

If that is the case Martyn, would you be able to do all the Zafira miles in just a few of the months ? Providing you have somewhere off-road to keep it, you could SORN the Zafira for several months at a time and save on VED (maybe insurance too).

NigeWick

Martyn1981 wrote: »

I think Stageshoot's posts, and the decision despite massive mileage, to shift from an I3 Rex to an I3 was an 'I' opener for me, proving that fast charging is viable

I see BP Chargemaster have put up their first 150kW charger. My understanding is that I should get about 70kW from such a pump. I'll see what it will actually deliver to my Kona early on Sunday morning when I drive down to Surrey to collect SWMBO who's there supervising grandchildren this week.

Martyn1981

EricMears wrote: »

I suspect he means that his total annual mileage is 8000 but needs to keep the Zafira running for 3000 of them ?

If that is the case Martyn, would you be able to do all the Zafira miles in just a few of the months ? Providing you have somewhere off-road to keep it, you could SORN the Zafira for several months at a time and save on VED (maybe insurance too).

Yep, 8k total, of which I think 5k+ could be electric. Also the fuel economy of the Zafira might improve as the weighting shifts from lots of city miles to mostly motorways.

Can't off-road it as Wifey goes off for lots of weekends spread throughout the year around the country. She claims it's for NDCS events, but could be having an affair - either way I get to play on the X-Box and eat Ben & Jerry's ..... so I don't mind.


Thanks for thoughts and ideas, lots to think about, certainly could justify moving extra PV and battery timeline forward but won't have money available before the VAT changes.

ed110220

GreatApe wrote: »

Best selling car in the UK for a very long time is the ford fiesta which can be had new for £12k even with the depressed pound.

A ford fiesta electric version (and rivals) is needed for a price point no higher than £15k and ideally exactly the same £12k for petrol

Not special deal or one off pricing but that being the norm

Such a car with 120 miles would do very well
If they could get 5 miles per KWh it would need 24KWh battery pack

Also when such cars arrive I think there would be an explosion in EV charging infrastructure

If every suitable house / business had a 7KW charger (or more) such cars could recharge at 35 miles per hour almost everywhere. Visiting grandma a hundred miles away don't worry the car will be full in 3 hours and your probably visit for longer than that anyway

Set up a system where you can connect to any charger and the car gets billed not the charger owner. So even if you go to a friends house hook up and you get billed not them.

That way 120 miles is fine for a radius of 100 miles because you can charge at both ends of the trip without the awkward 'can I use your electricity'

A few points:-

Though the Fiesta might be the UK's best selling car, I suspect that the best selling price range of cars is probably considerably more expensive. I had a quick search for breakdown of car sales by price but couldn't find anything and would be interested to see that information. I suspect that a large minority of new cars sold cost more than the ~£30k starting price of longer range EVs.Therefore a significant part of the market is ready for electrification based on price, even if not a majority.

Second, I think it's a mistake to assume that an EV must cost the same as an Ice. As the running costs will be lower for the EV, it can be more expensive for the same total cost of ownership. Especially as relatively few people buy new cars with cash - it's the monthly cost of the Pcp etc that is more important than the sticker price.

Third, cars in.the fiesta price range usually don't do that many miles. Few people who drive around the county for work will do so in a fiesta. Therefore there is some logic in concentrating on electrifying the classes of vehicles that do the most miles.

1961Nick

ed110220 wrote: »

A few points:-

Though the Fiesta might be the UK's best selling car, I suspect that the best selling price range of cars is probably considerably more expensive. I had a quick search for breakdown of car sales by price but couldn't find anything and would be interested to see that information. I suspect that a large minority of new cars sold cost more than the ~£30k starting price of longer range EVs.Therefore a significant part of the market is ready for electrification based on price, even if not a majority.

Second, I think it's a mistake to assume that an EV must cost the same as an Ice. As the running costs will be lower for the EV, it can be more expensive for the same total cost of ownership. Especially as relatively few people buy new cars with cash - it's the monthly cost of the Pcp etc that is more important than the sticker price.

Third, cars in.the fiesta price range usually don't do that many miles. Few people who drive around the county for work will do so in a fiesta. Therefore there is some logic in concentrating on electrifying the classes of vehicles that do the most miles.

I agree with you. The fuel savings alone mean that an EV PCP budget can be significantly raised & the overall motoring cost will still be lower (assuming a highish annual mileage).

I expect to save £300 pm on fuel & some of that will be used to pay for a slightly more expensive car than usual. Savings on tax, VED & servicing are more icing on the cake.:cool:

How things have changed.....a few years ago I was ruing the day when I'd be made to drive an EV.....now I can't wait to get one!:)

GreatApe

ed110220 wrote: »

A few points:-

Though the Fiesta might be the UK's best selling car, I suspect that the best selling price range of cars is probably considerably more expensive. I had a quick search for breakdown of car sales by price but couldn't find anything and would be interested to see that information. I suspect that a large minority of new cars sold cost more than the ~£30k starting price of longer range EVs.Therefore a significant part of the market is ready for electrification based on price, even if not a majority.

Second, I think it's a mistake to assume that an EV must cost the same as an Ice. As the running costs will be lower for the EV, it can be more expensive for the same total cost of ownership. Especially as relatively few people buy new cars with cash - it's the monthly cost of the Pcp etc that is more important than the sticker price.

Third, cars in.the fiesta price range usually don't do that many miles. Few people who drive around the county for work will do so in a fiesta. Therefore there is some logic in concentrating on electrifying the classes of vehicles that do the most miles.

None of the top 10 selling UK cars have a starting price of £30k and the top selling car is the fiesta which is closer to £12k.

Re BEVs don't have to be as cheap as petrol cars, they do because there is no fuel saving only tax saving which will be removed when BEVs become popular. Re they cost less to maintain again cars tend to have 4 owners in their lives and the first owner is under warranty their fiesta isn't going to go wrong in their ownership

Top 10 selling units 2018

Fiesta 96k units
Golf. 65k units
Corsa. 53k units
Qashqai 51k units
Focus 50k units
Polo. 45k units
Mini. 45k units
A-class 44k units
Kuga. 40k units
Sportage 36k units


BEVs need to be available at every price point including a compelling electrified fiesta type at around £12k and 120 miles range.