Electric vehicles miles per KWh

ABrass

Yup, but the starting point of this thread is a questionable basis. It assumes that EVs drive the same number of miles as the average ICE vehicle. That seems pretty tenuous for the current fleet.

Then you can throw in more recent options such as EVs with solar panels. Which have a negative phantom drain.

Plus it ignored ICE power losses whilst stationary.

We haven't torn this one to bits yet. Wandering off on third rate sci fi is a bit premature.

ABrass

Oh and you can get Green marginal generation. When there is excessive wind power available then load shedding means that some of that is dropped. Any extra charging using that power would be green marginal power by your definition.

GreatApe

ABrass wrote: »

Oh and you can get Green marginal generation. When there is excessive wind power available then load shedding means that some of that is dropped. Any extra charging using that power would be green marginal power by your definition.

Yes and I've already said so earlier on this thread

Re the power used by ICE when idle it's negligible in comparison
Sure their batteries drain too but they don't have much of a battery to drain
What's an ICE Battery perhaps 40AH at 12V = 0.5KWh? It's probably okay for about 15 days so the drain is what about 1.5 watts? So some 97% less than a BEV .... negligible

ABrass

Oh and the Fiesta starts at 15k. Seriously you need to be better with your numbers

Solarchaser

He only needs to be better with the numbers if he is actually making honest points.
I'm sure everyone can see he is simply trolling.

Hence why he goes on about vampire drain, yet I've already said my leaf doesnt have it.

And now he has made the statement clearly, that everyone already knew, he is a definite climate change denier.... on a green and ethical board.

You would only come to such a board, with such backwards ideas if you are a troll.

Maybe he can go to a space exploration board and explain how the earth is flat next.

But it's a good thing, now he has exposed himself, many people can stop replying to him.

Martyn1981

GreatApe wrote: »

Where did you get that £35k figure from?
This doesn't sound true looking at the top 20 list most of them are sub £25k some in the top 10 are even sub £15k like the Corsa and fiesta

GIYF.

To throw you a bone, you might want to argue for the median price, rather than the average, as I suspect that will be lower.

But once again we have a situation where you are arguing what you believe, not what is fact.

Given how well your beliefs have served you so far, you might want to consider a new career as green/RE/AGW troll is not working out so well.

Martyn1981

Solarchaser wrote: »

Its lazy, and obviously flawed.
I dont get my energy from China or the USA, so the point is .... unsurprisingly irrelevant.

Yep, but even in the US, EV's are cleaner in all 50 states (even Hawaii where diesel generation is still 'big').

Charging an electric vehicle is far cleaner than driving on gasoline


And an interesting fact about China - the oil price is close to 'peak-price' that's the point at which it will only get cheaper. This is because there is overproduction. To hit 'peak-price' demand needs to drop (by I think 2m barrels per day), and Chinese BEV bus deployment has already accounted for half that.

Once the oil price can't rise again, or even starts to fall, then the production with the highest costs will go 'bust', and those also happen to be the dirtiest too - Canadian tar sands, and US shale oil.

Basically, the World (thanks to BEV's) is already very close to a major oil disruption, long before oil itself is no longer needed.

markin

I did come across this.

"Britain is one of the CHEAPEST places in Europe to own an electric car "

"Analysis of an annual Car Cost Index has revealed the UK is the second most cost-effective place in Europe to own and run an electric car.
The Index, by LeasePlan, compares the cost of running different types of car in 18 European countries. Petrol, diesel, and electric vehicles are assessed. The index, based on corporate lease contracts, takes into account fuel, depreciation, taxes, insurance and maintenance.

• Can an electric car really save you money?

It averages a monthly cost over three years and 20,000 kilometers (around 12,500 miles) of ownership. The figures come in Euros, but we’ve converted to pounds using the current exchange rate.

For the UK, monthly EV ownership averaged out at £615, compared to petrol and diesel at a respective £542 and £516. Overall, then, EVs are still more expensive, but the gap is tightening.
Certainly, by comparison to the European average, we’re doing well. £777 per month for electric cars plays £540 and £558 on average for petrol and diesel.
The one country beating the UK in terms of monthly electric car cost of ownership is Greece, but not by much. Greek EV buyers can expect an average monthly cost of £597 – just £18 cheaper than second-placed Britain.
Everywhere else, including third-placed Germany (at £732), is at least £100 per month more expensive than Britain.
The most expensive place to own an EV is Poland where, on average, it would cost you £906 per month. That’s especially steep when compared the nation’s cost to own a petrol or a diesel – respectively, just £434 and £511 per month."


https://www.motoringresearch.com/car-news/uk-second-cheapest-place-europe-own-ev/


But more importantly is that.

Nearly all new private cars are bought on finance



"New figures released by the Finance & Leasing Association (FLA) have revealed that between June 2018 and June 2019, new private car sales through point-of-sale consumer finance topped 91 percent. That’s over nine in every ten private car sales floated via finance."

https://www.motoringresearch.com/car-news/new-cars-bought-finance/

Martyn1981

mmmmikey wrote: »

PCP rates are fundamentally affected by residual rates - i.e. secondhand values. This again gives rise to my point about what happens to secondhand values in a market where new prices would be expected to reduce as technology and volumes drive them down. It is possible we will see a situation where new prices will fall significantly denting the costs in the used markets, meaning that PCP rates will remain high thereby acting as a brake on sales.

PCP rates are likely to be a major driver of BEV's going forward.

The monthly rates have to reflect costs, including depreciation. But BEV depreciation is low, whllst a small but steady shift in demand from ICE to BEV will most likely reduce s/h values of ICE's. That lower residual value will have to be factored in to the PCP rate, giving BEV's a double win when costs are compared.

This is still speculation, but in the US where Ford and GM are more like giant banks than auto companies now, their businesses are highly dependent on PCP and therefore residual values - they could be at serious risk as the market shifts, if the value of lease end vehicles falls.

Martyn1981

GreatApe wrote: »

By the same logic

Fossil fuels are free
It's the catching it that costs money

Nope.

For RE the fuel is provided free at the 'powerstation'. The powerstation is not free.

FF's are not 'free' they have to be found, extracted, refined and transported ......... to the powerstation. The powerstation is not free.


Man oh man ...... does this really need explaining!!!!!!!!!