Parking charge and admin fee from hire company

anxiouscharlie

Hi everyone, I have read through the sticky post and the FAQs but I am still a little bit worried and confused. Two things:
1) This morning I received an email from a van hire firm saying they were charging me TWO admin fees for two separate car parking charges in the same weekend. Friday for parking outside my building to load the van and Monday for unloading it (we were picking up some items we had in storage). They informed me that they had my credit card details on file from the rental agreement and they would automatically deduct the £70 (2 x £35). Are they allowed to do this!?
2) I have not yet received my actual notice from UK Carpark Management Ltd as to the exact nature of the violation, the car hire company said they will be re-issuing me the fine directly. If I only have a certain amount of time to appeal or to pay a reduced fine, will this delay affect that?

After looking around the area I parked this morning I did find a sign that stated you could only park for 15 minutes for unloading and loading and you could not leave the vehicle unattended. We were unloading a very heavy item of furniture (which was in 2 pieces) that required two of us to lift it, and we live on the 17th floor with very tiny unreliable lifts, so no way on this planet could we have either done it ourselves or done it in any less time than that.

My other frustration comes from the fact that people move in and out of that building every day, and removal vans can park there no problem. So how is that different?! Our letting agency told us we could park there for loading and unloading and so we didn't even think to query it. Another resident also this morning said we could speak to security downstairs about a temp permit but again, I was not told this and had no awareness of this at all.

Looking at the sign it says I will be charged £100 for each violation, so along with the car hire admin fee this will cost me £275. My partner isn't working, I was out of work for six months and just started a new job, and we have JUST moved house, so I am so worried about how to pay this...and strongly feel I shouldn't have to!!!

Is there anything I can do while waiting for my notice from UKCPM? Or do I just appeal it when it comes using the guidelines you've provided others?

Also are the car hire firm A) Allowed to deduct my money without pre-approval and Required to refund my admin fee if I successfully appeal my fine?

Thank you in advance!

One v upset, angry and worried girl

The_Slithy_Tove

anxiouscharlie wrote: »

They informed me that they had my credit card details on file from the rental agreement and they would automatically deduct the £70 (2 x £35). Are they allowed to do this!?

Probably not. What exactly does the rental agreement say when it comes to admin fees? Does it refer only to fines/penalties (e.g. what the police and councils can levy through legislation)? If so, the answer is "no". So dig out the agreement you signed, and post the relevant wording here - verbatim, no attempts to precis.

As for the charges themselves, look up Jopson, where the judge deemed that loading was not parking.

The_Deep

If they charge a fee for dealing with private PCNs they may well be guilty of taking monies without authorisation.

Read up on unfair terms and conditions in consumer contracts as PCNs are invoices for disputed debts, and only become "live" if a judge says so.

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams so complain to your MP.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

anxiouscharlie

Thanks for the responses...here is the exact wording from the t&cs of the hire van rental agreement. As far as I can make out they are saying that I am liable for an admin fee regarding violations (fine) but I can’t see how they can take money from a card they have on file without authorisation? It’s a credit card too so I will incur extra charges....would have appreciated at least an option on how to pay!!! And notice they were going to take it.

4. Renter's Main Obligations
(a) Renter is required to
(i) always lock the Vehicle and secure all of its parts when it is left unattended;
(ii) return the Vehicle with the same fuel level as at the time of handing over unless otherwise agreed between Owner and Renter;
(iii) not let anyone work on the Vehicle without Owner's express permission. If Owner grants such permission, Owner will only give Renter a refund if Renter has a receipt for the work performed;
(iv) check oil and water levels and tyre pressure at regular intervals during the Rental Period;
(v) stop using the Vehicle as soon as possible and contact Owner as soon as Renter becomes aware of any fault with or malfunction of the Vehicle. In particular, Renter must take into account any warning lights that may appear on the dashboard of the Vehicle;
(vi) bring the Vehicle back to the agreed return location at the end of the Rental Period in the same condition as it was when it was handed over by Owner according to the Current Condition Document except for any usual wear and tear. A member of Owner's staff will inspect the Vehicle to check the condition of the Vehicle. When returning the Vehicle to the return location during business hours, Renter will remain responsible for the Vehicle and its condition until the inspection is completed or for one (1) hour after its return, whichever is the shorter period. If Renter is permitted to return the Vehicle to the return location outside of business hours, Renter remains responsible for the Vehicle and its condition until it is inspected by a member of Owner's staff within 2 hours of the start of the next business day. If Renter chooses to leave the Vehicle with a third party selected by Renter, Renter remains responsible for the Vehicle and its condition until it is inspected by a member of Owner's staff;
(vii) check that Renter has not left any personal belongings in the Vehicle before Renter returns the Vehicle;
(viii) pay any administrative fines, fees, charges, costs, penalties, or other fines that are imposed, issued or incurred in connection with the Renter's usage of the Vehicle during the Rental Period (including usage of the Vehicle by Authorised Drivers or other third parties who are permitted by Renter to use the Vehicle), such as fines or fees for illegal parking or speeding, non-compliance with bus lane, congestion charges, tolls or violations of the rules of the highway or traffic offence or contravention in any country, in all cases, to the extent permitted by law and not caused by Owner;

(d) Renter shall pay to Owner on demand:
(i) any additional charges, such as for an Extended Rental Period, for any late return of the Vehicle after the end of the Rental Period;
(ii) all penalties, fees, fines and court costs for parking, bus lane use, fines and road tolls, for all roadway infractions or other Vehicle-related offences which are assessed against the Vehicle, Owner, Renter, any Authorised Driver or any other person Renter permitted to use the Vehicle, until the Vehicle is returned, unless caused through Owner’s own fault;
(iii) For rentals originating in Ireland, a fee for the use of a trailer baller up to € 100;
(iv) an administration fee in the range of €/£ 5 to 45 for processing any fines or offences against the Vehicle, Owner, Renter, any Authorised Driver or any other person Renter permitted to use the Vehicle during the Rental Period, unless caused through Owner’s own fault;
(v) a collection fee of up to €/£ 150 based on the actual costs of abandonment incurred by Owner if the Vehicle is not returned to the original rental branch indicated in the Rental Agreement Summary; and
(vi) a cleaning fee of up to €/£ 100 if Renter fails to return the Vehicle in good condition due to unusual wear and tear, including but not limited to smoking in the Vehicle or coarse soiling, to compensate Owner for the costs incurred as a result of such failure.
(e) Renter shall pay any value added tax and all other taxes (if any) payable on any of the Rental Costs.
(f) Acceptable payment methods are credit card and debit card.
(g) For other rental charges see Rental Agreement Summary.

MistyZ

How about instructing your bank not to pay?

Or, at the very least, inform the hire company that you intend to challenge the parking charges and will require a refund of the (extortionate) admin charges when and if the matter is successfully concluded. You could quote from the Jopson case that The Slithy Tove mentions if you decide it is relevant in this instance.

If nothing else, I think it is best to challenge the hire company's demands in writing from the start.

It seems to me that no penalties, roadway infractions or other vehicle-related offences can be said to have been 'assessed against the Vehicle' until a court has deemed them to be legitimate. I don't really know but what a load of waffle in that contract ..... I don't think the hire company knows either!

Interested to know what the experienced regulars think but I'd dig my heels in.

anxiouscharlie

Thanks...according to their email they’ve already taken it!

As a reminder, your signature on the rental contract gives Enterprise full authorization to process any applicable charges for associated administration fees. We will attempt to charge the card listed below.

MistyZ

anxiouscharlie wrote: »

Thanks...according to their email they’ve already taken it!

As a reminder, your signature on the rental contract gives Enterprise full authorization to process any applicable charges for associated administration fees. We will attempt to charge the card listed below.

The swine! I wish I could charge £70 for 5 minutes work!

Multi-pronged approach required. Let the hire company know you'll be getting the admin fee back if charge is cancelled and also submit a landowner complaint (management company?) ASAP. Your post here tells the sorry tale well, so tell them the same. Be somewhat apologetic if you wish but don't grovel. Politely insist that they cancel this charge.

The_Deep

An invoice from a scammer is neither a fine nor a penalty. It is only a charge or a fee if a judge declares it is in court. Otherwise it is a disputed invoice.

You have right to appeal/contest it. If the hire company have paid it they have taken away that right.

Complain to Trading Standards and your MP.

BTW the T&C of the PPC re loading and unloading may well be seen by a judge as unfair. Read this

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/unfair-contract-terms-cma37

anxiouscharlie

Thanks everyone, some really helpful comments and advice.

Just to be clear the hire company haven't paid my fine, they have gone back to UKCPM for them to re-issue the fine to me. I called the hire car company this morning to ask them why they felt they had the authorisation to take money from my credit card, they directed me to their terms and conditions pasted above. To which I responded that at no point do they state they can take money without asking me first, and they certainly should give me the option how to pay. They have taken it from a credit card which will incur extra charges.

On a different issue, they have forwarded me a poorly scanned copy of my parking charge. It shows us on CCTV at the location stated, BUT the charge says

"We have requested your details from the DVLA as the registered keeper of the vehicle (through the Reasonable Cause criteria of pursuing an outstanding parking charge). The reason we issued the PCN to the vehicle is as follows: No Stopping or Waiting."

The sign by the side of the road says it is for loading and unloading. So surely on that basis alone this charge is void?

Although:

we were clearly there according to the CCTV longer than 15 minutes.

we did leave the van unattended (as stated there were only two of us carrying heavy furniture upstairs)

I will appeal this charge once I receive the official letter as opposed to this poor photocopy.
As someone mentioned on here I will be speaking to the property management company and the Residents' Association.

paulstevens64

You also need to understand that this is not a "fine" or a "penalty". It is a speculative invoice that you do not agree with. It would only become a valid charge if a judge in small claims court agreed it was valid, and ordered you to pay it.

So, the point being made is that the paragraph in the hire car companies terms states that they can charge a fee to administer "all penalties, fees, fines and court costs for parking, bus lane use, fines and road tolls, for all roadway infractions or other Vehicle-related offences which are assessed against the Vehicle, Owner, Renter, any Authorised Driver". In this case your speculative invoice (x2) are not penalties, fees, fines and court costs for parking, they are just disputed speculative invoices. Therefore the hire car company are not authorised to charge your card. They would be if you went to court and lost.

The_Deep

Has the hire company complied with the Memorandum of Understanding with the BPA? Sorry, cannot find a link.