Parking charge and admin fee from hire company

anxiouscharlie

Thank you...sorry one more question! How do I know if I have received a notice to Hirer or notice to Keeper? And is there a difference in compiling my defence?
I have also written to my MP and she is sympathetic and has told me to submit the response in conjunction with her getting involved from her side.
I am finding the Schedule 4 of POFA too complicated to figure out the timeframe due to the wording. At one point it states 14 days to give the PCN, at another point it says 28 days after the original notice was given to the hire firm, so I might avoid this line of defence as it isn't clear.

At this point do I mention anything about the conflicting signs and unreasonable waiting time given for unloading and loading? Or shall I save that for later? It is pretty much the basis of why I feel this is unreasonable - 15 minutes to carry heavy furniture to the 17th floor!! Plus the fact that there are CONSTANTLY delivery and removal vans outside.

Thanks for all your continued help. I will post my letter here when I am done to run it past you all.

anxiouscharlie

Here is my letter in full (taken from the templates directed to - with some additional info).

To whom it may concern,

Re Parking Charge Notices xxxx
Vehicle Registration xxxx

I refer to the above-detailed Parking Charge Notices (PCNs) issued to me by CPM as a Notice to Hirer, both of which were received on xxxx.

I confirm that as the hirer of this vehicle, I am its keeper for the purpose of the corresponding definition under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (POFA) and I write to formally challenge the validity of this PCN.

You should be familiar with the strict requirements of Schedule 4 of POFA to be followed in order for a parking operator to be able to invoke keeper liability for a Parking Charge. There are a number of reasons why Notice to Hirer did not comply with POFA; in order that you may understand why, I suggest that you carefully study the details of Paragraphs 13 and 14 of Schedule 4 in particular.

You have also not sent me the required documents and evidence with the PCN within the required timeframe specified under POFA after the alleged parking infringement occurred.

As a resident of xxxx, I believe the signage to be conflicting and also to be unreasonable (pictures attached).

One sign states:
“Restricted vehicle access.
Emergency, delivery and servicing vehicles
Resident pick-up / drop-off”


Another sign (on which the wording is extremely small) states:
“15 minutes maximum stay
Actively loading and unloading only”

Yet another sign simply states

“No unauthorised parking”

These are extremely conflicting. As a resident it would be reasonable to assume when moving heavy furniture in and out of a property on the xxx floor (which the CCTV would confirm was in fact what was happening on xxxx – the date to which the two PCNs refer to) that this would take longer than 15 minutes, and that, given no other option for parking near the entrance, the vehicle would have to be unattended given the time it would take to take the furniture to such floor and get back to the vehicle. And that this would happen many times for multiple items of furniture.

As a brand new resident I am certainly not aware of any other arrangement or permit being available for delivery and removal vehicles, of which these are a regular sight in the exact area prescribed. And, if all the signs are to be taken into consideration then it would be right to assume that ALL delivery and servicing vehicles are subject to the 15 minute time limit. If not, what are the exclusions? Why are residents not able to use this area for delivery and removal of furniture, but business are? Can you provide evidence of the FULL restrictions in place in this area for each vehicle type?

I therefore dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I have made a formal complaint about your conduct to xxx property management company, the xxxx association and to my MP.

Please confirm that you shall now cancel these charges. Alternatively, should you choose to reject my challenge, please provide me with details of the Independent Appeals Service (POPLA), their contact details and a unique POPLA appeal reference so that I may escalate the matter to POPLA.

Thank you for your cooperation and I look forward to receiving your response within the relevant timescales specified under the British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice.


Yours faithfully,

KeithP

UKCPM are members of the IPC's Accredited Operator Scheme, so any mention of PoPLA is inappropriate.

I would leave out the sentence starting "You have also not sent me...", as it prompts them to send the stuff. Let them work out where they have gone wrong.

In fact, in my opinion, everything including the "You have also not sent me..." sentence and beyond could/should be left out - leaving just the sentence "Please confirm that you shall now cancel these charges".

But if you decide to leave it in, the last sentence should refer to the International Parking Community's Code of Practice.

The salutation should be 'Dear Sirs', not 'To whom it may concern'.

Coupon-mad

15 minutes to carry heavy furniture to the 17th floor!! Plus the fact that there are CONSTANTLY delivery and removal vans outside.

I think you should not ask questions in your response, and make it shorter, as KeithP says.

Cite Jopson v Homeguard (search the forum) & tell them they have no cause of action as a case matching these facts has already been heard on appeal, and as such, if they fail to cancel this unfair PCN you will seek punitive costs when it comes to the matter of costs when you prevail at trial.

anxiouscharlie

Thank you everyone...will take out the “you haven’t sent me xyz” paragraph and will take out the questions. I’ll also shorten some of the rest as even my partner said it was a bit long.

Regarding POPLA, this is the first I’ve heard that I can’t appeal to POPLA for an IPC firm...can someone explain?

Redx

Popla is run by the BPA for BPA members, not for anyone else

The IPC runs its own service called IAS for IPC members only

Each one has its own Cop

So you cannot mix and match the two

Not difficult to understand, but the duplication does cause issues and this corrupt industry thrives on misinformation, complications and ignorance of the topics, hence your confusion

Think of it as being like two sides of an A4 sheet

Members and customers of side A follow side A

Members and customers of side B follow side B

You do not mix the two sides

anxiouscharlie

I get you, thank you for the explanation! Will take that bit out.

anxiouscharlie

I have been reading up on Jopson too and certainly looks to be a similar case of unloading outside a residential area ...although the question of parking vs unloading seems to be a fine line!

Coupon-mad

But it's a line that has been defined by a Senior Circuit Judge in a persuasive case.

In cases of similar facts county courts MUST at least 'pay regard to' (i.e. consider) similar appeal decisions provided in evidence.

anxiouscharlie

Thank you everyone for all your help on this...I have submitted my response to them online AND via post (and have received proof of postage and received email confirmation of submission). I have also been in direct contact with my MP and the property management company. Thank you for the advice on Jopson, it does look to be a similar case. I am anticipating a rejection, but will continue to fight it. I will let you all know when I receive a response (within 28 days). Thanks again.