Any other fishkeepers out there?

ailuro2

Google SIAMESE FIGHTING FISH - you can keep one of these in a 10 gallon tank (note gallon, not litres) and have a few bottom dwellers, such as three small type corydoras (little armoured catfish - very cool - panda corydoras and adolfo's corydoras stay small) The tank will need a filter with the sponge type fillings with an adjusted for the water flow. It will also need a heater to warm the water and keep the temperature stable.

What you must do before adding anything living to the tank is FISHLESS CYCLE the tank to build up some good bacteria to deal with the fishes waste, otherwise it will be swimming in ammonia polluted water and will die.

Fish these days tend to be a lot less hardy than the goldfish that lived for ten years after being won from the carnival stall, so they do need this extra care and attention.It's a great exercise in how to care for pets and be patient getting everything ready for them.

The siamese fighting fish, or betta splendens, are very clourful fish, and can have an old CD put on the side of their tank like a mirror every day to give the fish someone to 'fight' with. It keeps them stimulated, but only for an hour at a time or they feel permanently stressed from thinking there is another fish in their territory.

As you can see from my avatar I'm a fishkeeper - the fish in my avatar is a graphic of a simaese fighting fish - long flowing finnage that needs good water to keep the fins in good condition. I always encourage newbies to buy from a aquatic shop rather than a chain pet store - you're morelikely to buy a disease free fish from them, ask them about "fishless cycling" and if they tell you it's the best way to prep your tank instead of selling you a magic potion in a bottle, then that's the shop to buy your fish from.:D

srichards

I havent read all the posts yet...

We have one from petsathome, this one

http://www.petsathome.com/find/category-is-3+fish/category-is-3a+aquariums/product-is-18296

Its great, comes omplete with a filter, the replacement sponges are only a couple of quid also.

srichards

Contrary to some opinions the filter is absolutely fine. We also have an air bubble thing in it - shaped like a bum, so its looks like its trumping!

But yes you do need to cycle the water first before you add any fish. ALso you'll need all the gubbins - de-this and de-that. A quick hunt in my sons room shows - ammo lock, biological aquarium supplement, water conditioner, chlorine control, and stress-zyme.

we have 3 goldfish in that tank, we did have a huge tank, but it started leaking so got this one instead - yes its a bit smaller, but its absolutely fine.

One or two real plants are good also.

looby75

srichards wrote: »

Contrary to some opinions the filter is absolutely fine. We also have an air bubble thing in it - shaped like a bum, so its looks like its trumping!

But yes you do need to cycle the water first before you add any fish. ALso you'll need all the gubbins - de-this and de-that. A quick hunt in my sons room shows - ammo lock, biological aquarium supplement, water conditioner, chlorine control, and stress-zyme.

we have 3 goldfish in that tank, we did have a huge tank, but it started leaking so got this one instead - yes its a bit smaller, but its absolutely fine.

One or two real plants are good also.

tbh that is exactly the kind of tank I was thinking about something not too complicated, how long have you had that tank for? I would hate to get it all set up then the fish die.

srichards

looby75 wrote: »

tbh that is exactly the kind of tank I was thinking about something not too complicated, how long have you had that tank for? I would hate to get it all set up then the fish die.

We've had the fish for about a year but we've had that particular tank for about 4 or 5 months now.

We've only needed to change the filter pads once - I went away with work for 2 weeks and so bought one of those '2 week food' pate type things. Apparently it doesnt turn the water brown - lol yr right, it looked like someone had taken a dump in it!

So got the replacement sponges (about £3), and had to clean out the tank and replace the water.

And its all been fine. All 3 fishies are fine - 'iron-crue', 'burned toast', and 'shark bait' lol

We really like this one, its narrow enough at the bottom to sit safely on his cheap bookcase. The lid sort of clicks to hold, so the cat cant get at it. ANd it has 2 or 3 curved areas in the lid so you can have cables coming out of the tank and still letting the lid shut comfortably.

We've added all sorts of funky stuff in it - Spongebobs house for one! the farting air bubble bottom, and a couple of spongue bob characters.

Froglet

Sorry,but that tank is WAY too small for just one goldfish never mind three.You may think they are fine now even if they are small but because they cannot grow properly(and bear in mnd a goldfish grows very rapidly in the first two years) they will be stunted and end up with all sorts of problems.They will lead a miserable existence and end up dying through all their internal organs being squashed,as they grow even if the skeleton of the fish can't.

Unless you can ultimately provide at least a 4ft tank,they would be far better off in a pond.Since i put mine in my ponds, years ago,and watched them grow to their potential i would never consider keeping coldwater fish in a tank again.

Tropical are actually easier to keep and have less demands on space,because if you choose the right ones they will stay small.

Not so sharp is recommending the best site there is,i believe i sent her there!! and their advice is second to none.

looby75

Froglet wrote: »

Tropical are actually easier to keep and have less demands on space,because if you choose the right ones they will stay small.

Not so sharp is recommending the best site there is,i believe i sent her there!! and their advice is second to none.

after having a quick look at the site (not had much time this weekend but will look more today) I am seriously considering going tropical

So pleased I started looking into this now and not just a few weeks before christmas lol

srichards

Froglet wrote: »

Sorry,but that tank is WAY too small for just one goldfish never mind three.You may think they are fine now even if they are small but because they cannot grow properly(and bear in mnd a goldfish grows very rapidly in the first two years) they will be stunted and end up with all sorts of problems.They will lead a miserable existence and end up dying through all their internal organs being squashed,as they grow even if the skeleton of the fish can't.

Unless you can ultimately provide at least a 4ft tank,they would be far better off in a pond.Since i put mine in my ponds, years ago,and watched them grow to their potential i would never consider keeping coldwater fish in a tank again.

Tropical are actually easier to keep and have less demands on space,because if you choose the right ones they will stay small.

Not so sharp is recommending the best site there is,i believe i sent her there!! and their advice is second to none.

Can you explain to me what you mean by stunted growth and the internal organs being squashed please? I dont understand how this can happen in relation to the tank size.


btw one of them is already many years old anyway, he was inherited from my parents. But the other 2 are about 15 months old

tamsin1982

dont buy a hexagonal tank (high but not very round) there isnt enough surface area and i found my fish didnt like it as the bubbles from the air pump created too much of a current which doesnt happen in the normal oblong shape tank.
every good tank needs a filter, an air pump and a uv light (few hrs a day) and obviously a heater for tropical. remember to get a filter that is big enough for the amount of water in your tank otherwise it will only get dirty. if this happens anyway a pleco or a loach is a great investment

the man in the pet shop told me that small tanks dont stunt fishes growth but does make them grow slower, they out grow thier tank and will die prematurely. goldfish can live a very long time- some of ours are well over 10!

Froglet

Tamsin,a well cared for goldfish can live up to 30 years.So 10 should only be a third of its natural life.Some poor creatures don't even get to 10 weeks.They have a very simple stomach and most of what they eat goes straight through them,so they produce an awful lot of waste.Without adequate filration,and by adequate i mean properly cycled,they will be poisoned by their own waste which burns their gills and kills them in a horrible slow way.

People in pet shops do not need to know anything about how to care for fish properly.It is in their interest to sell you a small tank so that you then need a bigger one later on,or else you need to replace the fish when they ultimately die(in between,plenty of treatments to try and cure them.) Sorry if i sound cynical.But only good aquatic centres should be selling fish,and even then they don't always give the right advice.

Which brings me to srichards question about stunting.


Perhaps this post from the practical fishkeeping site will explain it better than i can,which was a reply to a similar vein to the queries on here.


"It is usually 80 litres per single-tailed goldfish that is considered the minimum necessary for it's optimum health .

The tank,at 40 litres, is woefully small for the fish and there is no doubt that the fish are being stunted by it.

Midnight, your fish, being single-tailed goldfish, will grow to around 12 inches or longer in their bodies (not counting their tails). They grow fast, and should reach that size in the first couple of years, assuming they are not being stunted by the conditions they are kept in. They probably are being stunted, though the good news is that some fish do recover from this when given good conditions to live in. Poor conditions (too small a tank) won't just stunt the fish, though the deformities that can cause are bad enough. It will also make them more vulnerable to disease and shorten their lifespan through them having generally poor health.

You asked about fish growing to the size of their environment. It does seem to be true that fish will, to some extent, reach a size dictated by their outside environment. My understanding is that this doesn't have to do so much with the size of the tank but with the cleanliness of the water. When the water becomes polluted the fish's growth will become stunted, a painful condition where the fish stops growing on the outside but keeps growing on the inside, resulting in its internal organs becoming squashed together and an early death when something ruptures. This is the state of many pet goldfish that survive their first few months (most of them, kept in the kinds of containers commonly sold for goldfish, die before that). In a small tank it is impossible to keep the water clean enough to allow the fish to grow naturally. It would require changing the water many times a day, which nobody can practically do (not to mention the stress this would place on the fish).


Another reason why goldfish need large tanks is that their digestive systems are relatively simple, and they produce a lot of waste for their size. Also, since the filter bacteria don't work as effectively in cooler water, the tank's can't support as much life as a similarly sized tropical tank. Altogether, the suggestion of "80 litres per fish" is a minimum for good health, and more is definitely going to be better. Really, goldfish like yours should be living in a pond, as most aquariums are too small.

As to why those tank are sold as being suitable for goldfish? I'm afraid it comes down to money. The manufacturers very clearly don't care that most of the goldfish kept in those tank will die very quickly and that the survivors will live shortened, stunted lives. And since people are often unwilling to believe that it can be expensive to adequately house an animal that is so cheap to buy, the problems continue, leaving a lot of dead goldfish along the way. It's a very sad end for an intelligent, beautiful, responsive animal that ought to grow large and live for 20-30 years in good health.

There are smaller coldwater fish that will do well in your tank. Check out white cloud mountain minnows and zebra danios, for starters.

Good luck finding a good solution for your goldies."

Like most people i too used to think that keeping fish was easy.It is not,and is not cheap either if done with the best of care that they deserve and need.Keeping small furry mammals is a lot easier and cheaper in my opnion!!