Any other fishkeepers out there?

scat

72 litres is about a 60 x 40cm tank I think. That's pretty small for goldfish. If I were you I'ld offload the goldfish, clean it out and cycle it properly. I wouldn't go back to a shop that told me it was ok to stick fish in an uncycled tank. There are lots of easy tropical fish. I started with white clouds, then platys, then moved on to neons. I think other options are guppies and danios. I also recently purchased shrimp - now they are cool!

ailuro2

Paparika wrote: »

My dad had a tropical tank as well as the big pond in the garden.

Tropical can be a nightmare, i got all excited as a kid when he bought a few seahorses as i do like them, and they died, the only thing i remember thriving was clown fish and the anemone (sp) that they lived in.i think on average most things lasted 2 years and that was it, (unless thats how long they live for)

Paparika, I think you mean marine, not tropical

for those new to the wonderful world of fishkeeping-

"Coldwater" is a tank commonly kept stable at a temperature that is quite cool, 15 through to 20 degrees, filled with freshwater, and used to keep fish that like more highly oxygenated water, as cold water can take on board more oxygen than warm. No salt in the water.

"Tropical" is a tank that is typically heated to a stable temp, from 24 up to 30 something degrees depending on the fish you want to keep. Many common fish like 26 degrees. Agian a freshwater tank, ie no salt added.

Marine - a tank with salt water in it,(like seawater) kept by people with more knowledge, requires special salt added and salinity tested. Tends to have 'live rock' which supports the nitrogen cycle instead of having a box with filter material in it. Can house some spectacular fish, but not for the budget concious unless someone is giving you a set-up for free. Very expensive to set up.

To keep this post moneysaving, I'd advise you to try a different shop to the one who told you it was fine to add fish to water that has been circulating for a week, not trying to grow nitrosomonas or nitrobacter (I threw the big words in so you can google them along with fishless cycling:D)

If he can sell you a new fish every time your fish dies, then he is keeping his profit turning over. If he sells you a goldfish that, when looked after, can live anything up to 20 years, will he keep turning over a profit?

some say he will because you will go to him for fish food, tank ornaments, new heater and filters etc. others who are after an easy buck will tell you to add a few goldfish and then sell you a 'water treatment' or finrot cure for them when they start to show signs of illness, then sell you another fish when it fails to cure it.

Go the £MSE way and do plenty of water changes this coming week and beyond. Add dechlorinator before you add the fresh water, otherwise the chlorine kills off all the good bacteria you have grown in the tank.

The thing for sucking the poop off the bottom is a gravel vacuum, submerse it all in the tank until all the air is out of it, put your finger over the end of the hose, keep your finger over the end and take it iver an empty bucket, This should start siphoning the dirty water. Skim across the gravel and it will suck up the water, taking some of the poop with it. Change about 25% of the water every time, then add the fresh water. This can be done daily or every second day when you have a new tank and didn't realise it needed properly cycled first.

hth, feel free to PM me if you have any other questions.:D

montymud

I keep Marine myself but in the past I have kept tropical and goldfish with the latter being by far the most resiliant. If you need advice or help or even just want to compare notes at any time I would reccomend visiting this site http://www.tropicalfish.site5.com/tfc/index.php They have sections for each type of fish keeping - pond, goldfish, tropical and marines and they are all very friendly on there and extremely helpful, drop by!

sodamnfunky

Notsosharp wrote: »

Re: Putting no fish in for a week not being cycling I actually asked the man at the fish shop (who has been doing it for the best part of 20 years) and he said it would be Okay to inroduce the fish after a week. I wouldn't have put fish in otherwise, I don't want them to die.

And I'm watching the tank now and they aren't going to the top when I'm not there, I didn't realise they reacted to the colours of my clothes and things. I will stop feeding them every day though, will every other day be okay?

Its hard to know which ones to put in the pond (if I need to) as they are still quite small and my Mum already has fairly big fish in there. I would just be worried they would get eaten or attacked by them.

nitrAtes, nitrItes and any ammonia - It didn't say anything in the book about checking for these...how do you check them? Do you get kits or something?

Just worked out the volume of the tank is 72l so its not overstocked if I allow as advised 20l for first fish and 10l for each fish after. My friend wanted to get me another fish but I will tell him not to bother as it will be overstocked then.

72 litres is far too small a tank for the amount of goldfish you have. You should be thinking of at least 120 litres as a bare minimum and running a good quality external filter with an spray bar attached.

You will need to change as someone pointed out at least 20-25% water EVERY week. Feed 5 times a week, or 10 times but divide what you feed now in half.

Goldfish are very messy fish, and remind me of cichlids in that respect.

I have 4 aquariums running at present, 3 freshwater, and 1 marine reef tank, and have been keeping fish for 25 years now since I was 12.

I would not take too much notice of the shopkeeper who has given you the advice so far.

This is one of the best sites I have ever used www.thetropicaltank.co.uk and has great forum too.

Emmabeth

Notsosharp wrote: »

Re: Putting no fish in for a week not being cycling I actually asked the man at the fish shop (who has been doing it for the best part of 20 years) and he said it would be Okay to inroduce the fish after a week. I wouldn't have put fish in otherwise, I don't want them to die.

The fish shop man is wrong. With a capital W.

20 GALLONS for the first fish, 10 GALLONS for each fish thereafter. Not litres, Gallons. Uk, imperial gallons.

In litres thats 90l for the first fish and 45 for each extra fish. If your tank is 72 litres, then you have actually not got enough room for 1 goldfish.

Goldfish ought to grow to 6inches minimum when mature, they are genetically capable of growing to 1foot long. Their natural lifespan is 20 years plus, but as I'm sure you can see, they are never going to achieve any of that in the tank you have.

There is a LOT of BS spread that fish limit the size they grow to, to the environment they live in, and to an extent thats true.... but its not a good thing, its caused by the fishes growth being stunted by the large amount of pollutants in their tank. A baby will not grow very big if you keep it in a small cardboard box but we wouldnt say that was a good thing!

My advice... seriously. Get a bigger tank (check out uk aquarist classifieds you can get some huge tanks pretty cheap on there if you have the room for them, many people dont hence the prices for tanks over 4ft long are really low).

Or, take the goldfish back, get a heater, cycle your tank and have tropicals. In a tank slightly smaller htan yours I house a nice busy community of threadfin rainbows and cheetah danios.

Whatever you do, you need to buy a test kit that does ammonia, nitrate and nitrite.

Notsosharp

I went and brought the test kit today but had to go back to the same man seeing as his is the only shop where I live that sells all this sort of stuff. The next nearest means travelling 20 miles by train which is just a no no with limited funds available. This will change when student grant comes through as I go to college there anyway.

Also brought the thing that swoops the poop off the bottom and changed 10% of the water, will do the same tomorrow or the next day. I dechlorinated the water before it went in and the fish look happy they are very active and loved the cucumber I gave them yesterday so I guess I must be doing something right. The water levels are fine.

I just didn't realise goldfish needed that sort of space, being a complete novice I just took the advice I was given. They won't be staying in that tank for the rest of their lives, when they get bigger they will be going into a friends pond so please don't make it out that I'm cruel - I'm not I just didn't know and I am trying my best for them by asking for advice on here and another forum.

Emmabeth

Im not making out you are cruel, sorry - unfortunately amongst dedicated aquarists its pretty well known that sadly the VAST majority of live fish shops give out utterly rubbish advice as to what fish go with which, how many in what size tank, how long a cycle takes, etc.

Not your fault at all.

I would do bigger water changes - 20% daily, and dont wait until those fish are too big for your tank, chances are they will be damaged before that happens. As soon as you can, move them out to a pond or a bigger tank and find something more appropriate for your tank.

There are loooooads of options for a small tank - mostly tropical. You could very admirably house 1 siamese fighter in there, or a small community of blue eyed rainbowfish, small danios, and some algae eating shrimps, or go brackish and have a puffer tank, there are some lovely dwarf puffers for brackish water (and 1 for fresh I think).

Have a google for 'planted nano tank' and see what can be done with the space you have.

Froglet

I know you have good intentions but i am afraid if you wait until they get bigger you will wait in vain,as they will be stunted,or die from the filter being unable to cope with the overcrowding and the water quality getting worse and worse.

Please consider all the good advice that a lot of people on here have given.Noone says you are being cruel,it is easy to believe a man in a shop who has been "keeping fish" for 20 years but he has only a vested interest in making money.Believe those of us who care enough to try and prevent others from making mistakes and the fish ultimately suffering.You have the opportunity NOW to ease the pressure and limit the tank to two at the most,and then buy a larger tank asap.Or change to tropicals.

moggylover

Only a couple of comments - no-body has asked about the size of your fish - and tbh that does count. It is a fairly small tank however, so I think you might be over-stocked unless they are very small fish.

As an example, I put a 30" tank (i.e. 30" x 12" x 12") up at school and they had 12 goldfish/shubunkins originally in there - but before anyone screams blue murder at me - these were tiny little baby fish about 0.5" long, and were hatched in a 2' tank in my own lounge (along with about 300 of their brothers and sisters) after the schools original two fish spawned in their goldfish bowl:eek: ! The big guys went into my pond as it was decided that the kids would enjoy watching the babies grow.

As they grew about half of them were given to another school who had been given a 4' tank, and we have gradually moved the remaining 6 up to a 4' tank and they are doing very well therein - although as they are now about 2" long (body only measurement counts - not tails) each they do take a lot of maintaining. We will let them get a bit bigger before we put some of them in the pond.

The Moor cannot go in a pond - and if you have any other of the Oranda shape fish then they cannot either.

Notsosharp

Hi, thanks for asking, they are not big at all - about an inch and half, two inches tops.