Will Brexit happen?

lvader

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Momentum has control over grass roots. Momentum backs JC.

Indeed, (old) Labour will probably end up reforming under another name.

Thrugelmir

MaxiRobriguez wrote: »

The quickest solution would be a referendum between no deal exit and trade on WTO terms indefinitely vs a remain option.

Choice has to be binary. No deal doesn't rule out any future trading relationship. Simply that we exit without an agreement. After which individual topics would be addressed on an item by item basis.

phillw

Conina wrote: »

The first legal attempt to stop Boris's prorogue has failed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-49568760

Great - that sets a precedent too.

If losing always sets a precedent then Boris will have a long and painful career.

Thrugelmir wrote: »

There is no negotiating position. The EU wishes to protect it's borders. The UK will not accept a Customs Union set by Brussels. That's stalemate. Meanwhile the UK hands £744 million (net) a month to Europe.

Once you take into account the money we receive in the other direction, plus the money that we make by being in the single market then it's rather disingenuous to talk about the money we give to the EU.

Do you understand that it's purely a propaganda statement meant to breed resentment against the EU?

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Choice has to be binary. No deal doesn't rule out any future trading relationship. Simply that we exit without an agreement. After which individual topics would be addressed on an item by item basis.

BJ negotiating position rules out that kind of referendum, because he refuses to do a deal until the very last moment as he's under the delusion that this helps.

If he was a good negotiator then he would be able to pull the house together, pull the country together and offer the EU something they could accept. He's not a good negotiator.

MaxiRobriguez

Thrugelmir wrote: »

There is no negotiating position. The EU wishes to protect it's borders. The UK will not accept a Customs Union set by Brussels. That's stalemate. Meanwhile the UK hands £744 million (net) a month to Europe.

In which case there's no ability to negotiate a trade deal after a no-deal Brexit either and therefore a second referendum between no-deal and remain becomes a necessity.

The Government cannot force what itself concedes will be severe operational challenges without the consent of the people. The previous referendum becomes moot, because at that point the concept of food shortages, medicine shortages, stockpiling body bags didn't exist.

If the people vote no-deal Brexit so be it, it gives parliament a reinforcement of the previous decision and there is no further argument to be had, Brexit can be implemented and there is no need to faff about pretending to try and get a trade deal when we can move onto other things.

JoeyG

Herzlos wrote: »

Admitting it's a disaster, withdrawing A50 and trying to solve the root issues rather than tackle the bogeyman that is the EU

This a million times! But there needs to be ongoing discussion, debate and compromise thereafter. If dialog can lead to the GFA, it can solve this mess.

Thrugelmir

lvader wrote: »

Indeed, (old) Labour will probably end up reforming under another name.

This is old Labour. Under Blair the party never actuallly modernised. The divisions never healed. Hence the constant re-emergence of the Lib Dems as Middle Class socialists defect.

Thrugelmir

MaxiRobriguez wrote: »

In which case there's no ability to negotiate a trade deal after a no-deal Brexit either and therefore a second referendum between no-deal and remain becomes a necessity.

Who are the big losers if no trade deal. Eire and Germany I'd say. Germany is feeling the pinch all ready. Eire has huge exposure to UK markets not least in agricultural produce. Much of what we export is imported then assembled before being shipped back to Europe. Hondas parts come from Belgium everyday somewhere between 200 and 300 lorry loads. There's a huge amount of fog that's going to lift.

lvader

Thrugelmir wrote: »

This is old Labour. Under Blair the party never actuallly modernised. The divisions never healed. Hence the constant re-emergence of the Lib Dems as Middle Class socialists defect.

Old Labour is run by the unions, that isn't the same thing as momentum, they seem happy to coexist at the moment but who knows in the future.

lisyloo

Thrugelmir wrote: »

You are a grown up. Plenty of information in the public domain. Upon which to form ones owns opinions. Corbyn has been around a very long time and holds views that are on the extremes.

My view is that I’d rather have a Corbyn government if push comes to shove rather than no deal.
I don’t remember drug or fresh food shortages under labour.
The PM doesn’t always get his/her own way as we have seen.
I have every confidence that our parliamentary democracy will tame the worst extremes of any individual as it’s doing right now.

If you don’t want to bother to attempt to change opinions the out of interest why are you posting?

You are free to express your opinions, but failing to back them up then it’s just one persons opinion that’s unlikely to influence anyone.

lvader

lisyloo wrote: »

You are free to express your opinions, but failing to back them up then it’s just one persons opinion that’s unlikely to influence anyone.

There are only opinions here and facts very rarely changes those.