Will Brexit happen?

MaxiRobriguez

Moby wrote: »

So basically because the Govmt doesn't like the parliamentary arithmetic....it suspends that parliament.........I thought leaving the EU was about the democratic deficit......I thought leaving the EU was to make our own Parliament sovereign and unfettered by the EU. Such rank hypocrisy. Now at least we know from the cheering response of brexiteers to the decision to prorogue, the vote to leave had nothing to do with sovereignty....how could it when you treat your own parliament with contempt.

I'm a Brexiteer and I find it outrageous.

It's completely unacceptable, the sort of disregard for democracy that would bring absolutely every single citizen of France onto the streets if it was Macron doing this.

lvader

I don't see what the problem is, if parliament doesn't like it they will be able to call for a vote of no confidence. It probably won't stop us exciting the EU but the country already decided on that. (twice if you count the general election).

Well done on Boris who had the guts to force a decision.

MaxiRobriguez

lvader wrote: »

I don't see what the problem is, if parliament doesn't like it they will be able to call for a vote of no confidence. It probably won't stop us exciting the EU but the country already decided on that. (twice if you count the general election).

Well done on Boris who had the guts to force a decision.

The problem is it sets a precedent for future Governments to force through decisions that parliament doesn't like, and that's not how this country is supposed to be governed.

Why bother with parliament at all in that case? Let's just ease the complexity of disagreements and just have a dictator instead.

Moby

lvader wrote: »

I don't see what the problem is, if parliament doesn't like it they will be able to call for a vote of no confidence. It probably won't stop us exciting the EU but the country already decided on that. (twice if you count the general election).

Well done on Boris who had the guts to force a decision.

You are right we had a general election and we elected a parliament. In this country we have a parliamentary democracy. It is usual for a Govmt to either work with parliament or step down and allow the opportunity for another Govmt to be formed....if not successful we usually revert to a General Election. What Johnson is doing is an affront to democracy. If people can't see that it is probably because he is doing what they want him to do....which is fine for them until he does things they don't agree with.....then they will howl in outrage....but it will be too late!

Rinoa

Lets not forget. Parliament voted by an overwhelming majority to leave the EU.

Parliament also voted 3 times against the deal offered by the EU.

The EU says there is no other deal possible.

Boris is simply using the only option remaining.

Arklight

mayonnaise wrote: »

IMO a hard brexit on 31/10 died today.
Tory moderates who up to now didn't feel too comfortable bringing the govt. down are already changing their mind + legal challenges waiting in the wings...
'Constitutional crisis' will be the theme for the next few months.
Definitely popcorn time.

Apart from Anna Soubry and Heidi Allen there may be a few more Tory MPs who actually do have principles and won't be willing to keep signing off on Johnson's Blackshirt revolution.

One of the main benefits of Brexit is that signals the probable end of the Tory party having any pretence of right of centre politics. It's the party of the privileged, the rich, the right wing, the racist, and increasingly, the old. And is seen to be so.

Moe_The_Bartender

Boris is fully entitled to ask the Queen to suspend parliament. There will be a Queens speech which means that parliament will either vote for it or against. If they vote for it, they will be voting for a no deal Brexit. If they vote against, no legislation can be passed and there will have to be an election.

Bring it on.

Moe_The_Bartender

Arklight wrote: »

Apart from Anna Soubry and Heidi Allen there may be a few more Tory MPs who actually do have principles.

What principles do Soubry and Allen have? They stood on a manifesto to honour the result of the referendum, they voted for the Withdrawal Act and to activate A50. Now they want to do the exact opposite. They are trash and will be out of the next parliament.

Arklight

Moe_The_Bartender wrote: »

What principles do Soubry and Allen have? They stood on a manifesto to honour the result of the referendum, they voted for the Withdrawal Act and to activate A50. Now they want to do the exact opposite. They are trash and will be out of the next parliament.

Sorry, I should have said "have some principles (for Tories)."

When still in the Conservative Party, Allen actually went on a tour of the UK to highlight the appalling impact of Tory austerity on the poorest and most vulnerable. She also said that she didn't become an MP to make people suffer by being poorer. At the time this did rather suggest she'd chosen the wrong party to represent.

Sailtheworld

I like Boris' line that he's not proroguing parliament to force a no-deal brexit but so he can get on with his exciting legislative plans. When everyone knows you're lying (except those with cognitive dissonance) what's the point of lying?