Will Brexit happen?

Thrugelmir

Herzlos said:

Moe_The_Bartender said:

Let's take a look at the EU today.

Schengen effectively suspended.
Stability Pact suspended
State aid rules suspended.
Free movement suspended.
No EU budget agreement.

We should be delighted to be out of this omnishambles but the usual suspects are still trying to tell us how great the EU is.

So basically all the stuff you wanted and needed to leave the EU for turns out to be stuff we didn't need to leave the EU for?

The EU, or least the states that wish to participate. Will need to decide whether they all in to the project or not. Sad state of affairs that it's taken a pandemic to draw attention to the known flaws. Going to take many years to recover from events now. 

phillw

Moe_The_Bartender said:

We should be delighted to be out of this omnishambles but the usual suspects are still trying to tell us how great the EU is.

You can call it an omnishambles, but that describes the UK government more than it does the EU. It's no surprise that you can't see it yet.

Herzlos

Thrugelmir said:

Herzlos said:

Moe_The_Bartender said:

Let's take a look at the EU today.

Schengen effectively suspended.
Stability Pact suspended
State aid rules suspended.
Free movement suspended.
No EU budget agreement.

We should be delighted to be out of this omnishambles but the usual suspects are still trying to tell us how great the EU is.

So basically all the stuff you wanted and needed to leave the EU for turns out to be stuff we didn't need to leave the EU for?

The EU, or least the states that wish to participate. Will need to decide whether they all in to the project or not. Sad state of affairs that it's taken a pandemic to draw attention to the known flaws. Going to take many years to recover from events now. 

I've got a hunch that the noone else is going to be leaving the EU over this - we need cooperation more than ever at the moment. It's going to take years to recover from Covid-19 and from Brexit, I fully agree. I bet you're going to claim that Britain will be able to recover faster than the EU somehow, but I don't think I'll be able to agree with you.

phillw

Herzlos said:
I bet you're going to claim that Britain will be able to recover faster than the EU somehow, but I don't think I'll be able to agree with you.

It depends on what you class recovery, if you only deal with the privileged then recovery can be quite quick. We're pretty good in the uk at blaming people for their misfortune and applauding our own success when both are pretty much just random luck.

phillw

Thrugelmir said:
The EU, or least the states that wish to participate. Will need to decide whether they all in to the project or not. Sad state of affairs that it's taken a pandemic to draw attention to the known flaws. Going to take many years to recover from events now. 

They are all in the project, what you're saying is like suggesting schools should be issuing fine for parents that are keeping their children at home.
I'm not sure you've tried hard enough to understand the EU.

Thrugelmir

Herzlos said:

Thrugelmir said:

Herzlos said:

Moe_The_Bartender said:

Let's take a look at the EU today.

Schengen effectively suspended.
Stability Pact suspended
State aid rules suspended.
Free movement suspended.
No EU budget agreement.

We should be delighted to be out of this omnishambles but the usual suspects are still trying to tell us how great the EU is.

So basically all the stuff you wanted and needed to leave the EU for turns out to be stuff we didn't need to leave the EU for?

The EU, or least the states that wish to participate. Will need to decide whether they all in to the project or not. Sad state of affairs that it's taken a pandemic to draw attention to the known flaws. Going to take many years to recover from events now. 

I've got a hunch that the noone else is going to be leaving the EU over this - we need cooperation more than ever at the moment.

The EC isn't functioning. National Governments are quite rightly taking their own decisions. There's a complete lack of cohesion. The future will bring a huge amount of reflection. 

_mayonnaise_

Moe_The_Bartender said:

Let's take a look at the EU today.

Schengen effectively suspended.
Stability Pact suspended
State aid rules suspended.
Free movement suspended.
No EU budget agreement.

We should be delighted to be out of this omnishambles but the usual suspects are still trying to tell us how great the EU is.

A flexible organisation, adapting to the current crisis. Good.

If the EU were to mandate the continuity of Schengen, FM, state aid rules, etc.....you'd be screeching it's a immovable behemoth.

EU-phobia is a weird but wonderful thing. 

_mayonnaise_

Una_Voidable said:

Very different because the EU is, thanks to this virus, showing just how divided the "union" really is and how prepared it is to help out member countries - i.e. not at all. Look at Italy, look at how other EU countries have ignored their plight and look at who is helping! Not the EU but Russia and Cuba. Spain too have had what help from the EU? Or France? 
When this is over don't think the people suffering in those countries will forget that.

You fell for Russia's propaganda stunt. Unsurprisingly.

“This is all about perception,” said Nathalie Tocci, director of the Italian Institute of International Affairs in Rome. “This medical help from Russia is nothing compared to the 750 billion euros of assets the ECB is going to buy. But it’s very hard to convey the importance of that to the public.”

Very hard indeed.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-23/putin-flies-help-to-virus-stricken-italy-exploiting-eu-fumble

Moe_The_Bartender

_mayonnaise_ said:

Moe_The_Bartender said:

Let's take a look at the EU today.

Schengen effectively suspended.
Stability Pact suspended
State aid rules suspended.
Free movement suspended.
No EU budget agreement.

We should be delighted to be out of this omnishambles but the usual suspects are still trying to tell us how great the EU is.

A flexible organisation, adapting to the current crisis. Good.

If the EU were to mandate the continuity of Schengen, FM, state aid rules, etc.....you'd be screeching it's a immovable behemoth.

EU-phobia is a weird but wonderful thing. 

The EU has actually been forced into it by individual member states acting in their own interests. Left to itself, it would be muttering meaningless crud like 'the people are demanding more Europe'
Oh, wait. The useless Von der Leyen just did.

Herzlos

Thrugelmir said:

Herzlos said:

Thrugelmir said:

Herzlos said:

Moe_The_Bartender said:

Let's take a look at the EU today.

Schengen effectively suspended.
Stability Pact suspended
State aid rules suspended.
Free movement suspended.
No EU budget agreement.

We should be delighted to be out of this omnishambles but the usual suspects are still trying to tell us how great the EU is.

So basically all the stuff you wanted and needed to leave the EU for turns out to be stuff we didn't need to leave the EU for?

The EU, or least the states that wish to participate. Will need to decide whether they all in to the project or not. Sad state of affairs that it's taken a pandemic to draw attention to the known flaws. Going to take many years to recover from events now. 

I've got a hunch that the noone else is going to be leaving the EU over this - we need cooperation more than ever at the moment.

The EC isn't functioning. National Governments are quite rightly taking their own decisions. There's a complete lack of cohesion. The future will bring a huge amount of reflection. 

You're just starting to realise that the National Governments were sovereign all along?