Will Brexit happen?

Moe_The_Bartender

It works both ways, doesn’t it? The UK will be able to drop the EU's protectionist tariffs which punish African farmers meaning that the cost of their produce will be cheaper. And of course the customer ultimately wins or loses depending on what the product is. German car producers should be worried.

Herzlos

What protectionist tariffs that punish Africa?
The EU is almost tariff free for most of Africa, see this link: https://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/docs/2017/november/tradoc_156399.pdf
Now we need to arrange FTAs with each of those countries to do essentially the same thing.

_mayonnaise_

Moe_The_Bartender said:

It works both ways, doesn’t it? The UK will be able to drop the EU's protectionist tariffs which punish African farmers meaning that the cost of their produce will be cheaper.

Every time you post, you reveal how little you understand.

There are no punishing tariffs on African farmers to be dropped because they do not exist.

https://fullfact.org/europe/out-africa-facts-about-eu-tariffs-african-exports/

the EU has special schemes in place with the majority of African countries that mean that they can import almost all of their goods into the EU tariff-free.

Always happy to educate.

John_Doe

_mayonnaise_ said:

Moe_The_Bartender said:

It works both ways, doesn’t it? The UK will be able to drop the EU's protectionist tariffs which punish African farmers meaning that the cost of their produce will be cheaper.

Every time you post, you reveal how little you understand.

There are no punishing tariffs on African farmers to be dropped because they do not exist.

https://fullfact.org/europe/out-africa-facts-about-eu-tariffs-african-exports/

the EU has special schemes in place with the majority of African countries that mean that they can import almost all of their goods into the EU tariff-free.

Always happy to educate.

Ah so the trade unions are wrong I suppose?

"The starkest example of the dark heart of the European Union is its brutal neo-colonial relationship with the Third World, particularly Africa."

http://www.tuaeu.co.uk/how-the-eu-starves-africa/

Politico is wrong too I suppose?

"European multinationals are aggressively pursuing one of milk’s few growth markets, where locals say they can’t compete."

https://www.politico.eu/article/eus-milk-scramble-for-africa/

It's been going on for decades, with even the UN saying back in 2002:

"How Northern subsidies hurt Africa"

https://www.un.org/africarenewal/magazine/september-2002/how-northern-subsidies-hurt-africa

There is lots more which like the first two are recent, like this re: chicken.

"The European Union has a long and shameful history of abusive agricultural trade practices directed at Africa and other developing regions. Its predatory approach has had a catastrophic effect and has devastated poultry farmers and producers in Africa and elsewhere."

https://mg.co.za/article/2017-11-10-00-eu-chicken-dumping-starves-africa/


Always happy to bring education up-to-date for those struggling to accept that the EU are anything other than a modern panacea. 

Herzlos

The EU does lots of things that aren't great for someone. Tariffs as mentioned by Moe isn't one of them, and none of your links are related to tariffs from what I can tell from a skim. Your links actually go on to detail why tariff free trade with the EU is a problem, so you're actively disproving Moe and confirming what Mayo and myself have said.

They also highlight what'll happen here if we allow the US trade deal - we're going to get a lot of below-cost-price chicken dumped on us.

Malthusian

Yeah but all that subsidy and dumping is fine because it's not tariffs.

Still, can't expect the natives to understand the distinction, eh what old chap.

Seduced by EU promises of barrier-free access to trade with Europe, many African countries have been cajoled into lowering their own trade barriers, which protect sensitive agricultural industries such as poultry.

As soon as the ink is dry on an economic partnership agreement, EU poultry producers flood the African country with frozen poultry at prices well below the cost of production. Consumers in Europe prefer white poultry meat so there is little or no market for chicken thighs and legs. Hence EU poultry producers dump unwanted chicken parts that in Europe are essentially a waste product.

gfplux

adindas said:

gfplux said:

Moe_The_Bartender said:

Herzlos said:

Each state in the EU has the option to disagree with any part of the UK's deal (and we stand a very real risk of being blocked out on WTO because we get veto'd by someone). They haven't yet, why?

If we left on WTO terms, it works both ways. Based on current trade volumes, the EU would have to pay the UK €6.6bn more in tariffs than the UK would pay the EU. They do have an incentive to make a deal.

Even if anyone would agree with your numbers the post corona virus trade levels will be a very different picture.
With face to face trade talks suspended both sides will have time to factor in why would they need a trade deal to cover none existent trade!

The trade between the EU countries and the UK has happened since a long time ago. Those who said it is a non existence but preaching a lot about Brexit is a complete ignorance, which do not even understand a very basic stuff about the UK and the EU relationship.  The EU trade surplus to the UK is about £69 bil. Tons of info about this statistics...

Forgive me but your post has completely lost me. Please help me.

adindas

John_Doe said:

_mayonnaise_ said:

Moe_The_Bartender said:

It works both ways, doesn’t it? The UK will be able to drop the EU's protectionist tariffs which punish African farmers meaning that the cost of their produce will be cheaper.

Every time you post, you reveal how little you understand.

There are no punishing tariffs on African farmers to be dropped because they do not exist.

https://fullfact.org/europe/out-africa-facts-about-eu-tariffs-african-exports/

the EU has special schemes in place with the majority of African countries that mean that they can import almost all of their goods into the EU tariff-free.

Always happy to educate.

Ah so the trade unions are wrong I suppose?

"The starkest example of the dark heart of the European Union is its brutal neo-colonial relationship with the Third World, particularly Africa."

http://www.tuaeu.co.uk/how-the-eu-starves-africa/

Politico is wrong too I suppose?

"European multinationals are aggressively pursuing one of milk’s few growth markets, where locals say they can’t compete."

https://www.politico.eu/article/eus-milk-scramble-for-africa/

It's been going on for decades, with even the UN saying back in 2002:

"How Northern subsidies hurt Africa"

https://www.un.org/africarenewal/magazine/september-2002/how-northern-subsidies-hurt-africa

There is lots more which like the first two are recent, like this re: chicken.

"The European Union has a long and shameful history of abusive agricultural trade practices directed at Africa and other developing regions. Its predatory approach has had a catastrophic effect and has devastated poultry farmers and producers in Africa and elsewhere."

https://mg.co.za/article/2017-11-10-00-eu-chicken-dumping-starves-africa/


Always happy to bring education up-to-date for those struggling to accept that the EU are anything other than a modern panacea. 

And The Subsidy to the EU farmers is unbelievable: 
" 38% of the EU budget for 2014-2020, equivalent to 363 billion euros ($485.7 billion) of the 960 billion total, or around 50 billion euros a year."
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/10/brexit-leaving-eu-farming-agriculture
What the EU do not want to see  is the UK to triumph outside the EU. When that time has come that will be the end of the EU.
Keep in mind Canada a much smaller and less influential country than the UK has that deal without allowing the ECJ to have jurisdiction, without surrendering their water to the EU. Similarly to Korea and / or Japan. Did any of these countries country allow the ECJ and/or access or their water to get a trade deal with the EU??. If not, why the EU is making such an unreasonable demand. The UK just want a Canada-style free trade agreement, which the EU has frequently said is on offer. but now they are asking a level paying field nonsense. Another way of saying you become the subservient of the  under ECJ.  This is also another evidence that the EU can not be trusted. 
Moreover compared to Canada, Japan Korea,  
- the UK has been the second/third net largest contributors to the EU budget,
- the top contributors to the EU intelligence and security,
- the top contributors to the Eu defense system. 
- The EU trade surplus with the UK is about £69 billion pound a year 

Any sensible negotiator could easily see that if the EU to demand fishing right and ECJ jurisdiction than it must also give something similar in return proportional to what they have asked,

- For the UK to grant  a fishing right, something similar in return is to allow people in the the UK to get free access to the French vineyards, olive plantation in Greece, fruit and vegetables in Spain plus other access with similar economical & political value to match that demand.

· For ECJ jurisdiction they should also allow the UK court of justice to be applied to any individual country in the EU.

Which organisation punish their members for leaving. Offhand I could only think a few exist in this world. Mafioso type organisations, Secret sect organisation for their member undermining order, ISIS/DAESH.

Who is not happy to leave a cartel, mafioso type organisation while you still can ??

Herzlos

Malthusian said:

Yeah but all that subsidy and dumping is fine because it's not tariffs.

Still, can't expect the natives to understand the distinction, eh what old chap.

Seduced by EU promises of barrier-free access to trade with Europe, many African countries have been cajoled into lowering their own trade barriers, which protect sensitive agricultural industries such as poultry.

As soon as the ink is dry on an economic partnership agreement, EU poultry producers flood the African country with frozen poultry at prices well below the cost of production. Consumers in Europe prefer white poultry meat so there is little or no market for chicken thighs and legs. Hence EU poultry producers dump unwanted chicken parts that in Europe are essentially a waste product.

The dumping is definitely a concern and something that should be addressed somehow (I'm not sure how, maybe tariffs), I'm not saying it's not a problem. I'm just saying the Moe's claim of "EU's protectionist tariffs which punish African farmers" is completely inaccurate.

adindas

gfplux said:

adindas said:

gfplux said:

Moe_The_Bartender said:

Herzlos said:

Each state in the EU has the option to disagree with any part of the UK's deal (and we stand a very real risk of being blocked out on WTO because we get veto'd by someone). They haven't yet, why?

If we left on WTO terms, it works both ways. Based on current trade volumes, the EU would have to pay the UK €6.6bn more in tariffs than the UK would pay the EU. They do have an incentive to make a deal.

Even if anyone would agree with your numbers the post corona virus trade levels will be a very different picture.
With face to face trade talks suspended both sides will have time to factor in why would they need a trade deal to cover none existent trade!

The trade between the EU countries and the UK has happened since a long time ago. Those who said it is a non existence but preaching a lot about Brexit is a complete ignorance, which do not even understand a very basic stuff about the UK and the EU relationship.  The EU trade surplus to the UK is about £69 bil. Tons of info about this statistics...

Forgive me but your post has completely lost me. Please help me.

In order for people to help you, you will need to be specific which part you do not understand ?. As I mentioned previous what a surprise for those who is preaching a lot of Brexit can not even figure out a very basic stuff.
And if there is something not true in that statement please highlight it ...