Will Brexit happen?

bhupinder

Ah yes the cohesive EU that cannot agree on a budget, that cannot agree on barriers to migration, that cannot agree to even help each other in times of need, means "EU Unity" does not exist unless it suits like now when Italy needs help and France and Germany refuse.

Herzlos

I didn't say they were fully cohesive, but is there any indication that they're going to break cohesion regarding Brexit? The Brexiteers have been claiming that's about to happen for about 4 years now and they haven't budged.

Thrugelmir

Herzlos said:

I didn't say they were fully cohesive, but is there any indication that they're going to break cohesion regarding Brexit? The Brexiteers have been claiming that's about to happen for about 4 years now and they haven't budged.

Amounts to the same thing. Self protectionism. Me first. When it comes to National interests. 

Sailtheworld

Thrugelmir said:

Herzlos said:

I didn't say they were fully cohesive, but is there any indication that they're going to break cohesion regarding Brexit? The Brexiteers have been claiming that's about to happen for about 4 years now and they haven't budged.

Amounts to the same thing. Self protectionism. Me first. When it comes to National interests. 

In the real World people & countries deal with the conflict between self interest and the greater good every day. 

Brexiteers have been predicting the imminent collapse of the EU because they think everyone thinks exactly like them i.e. 'I wouldn't do anything for the greater good if it impacted me negatively so I can't imagine why anyone else would'. You're projecting your own rather insular world view which is a tad further along the bell curve than everyone else.

Herzlos

Thrugelmir said:

Herzlos said:

I didn't say they were fully cohesive, but is there any indication that they're going to break cohesion regarding Brexit? The Brexiteers have been claiming that's about to happen for about 4 years now and they haven't budged.

Amounts to the same thing. Self protectionism. Me first. When it comes to National interests. 

I'm not seeing that at all, the EU is remaining strong despite us having all the cards, because they know it's better for them than falling out over it. Sure, France wants slightly different to Germany, but they (quite rightly) aren't willing to break up the EU to get bespoke deals with us.

This idea that the EU is about to collapse anyway / without us / because of brexit is pure fantasy. It's always had it's internal divisions and politics (like we have), but it (unlike us) managed to provide a united front when it comes to external negotiations.

Ruprecht

Here's how much the EU agree with each other & a record of EU infringement proceedings against member countries for not adhering to EU rules:
https://www.euractiv.com/section/energy-environment/news/fact-check-germany-is-eus-fifth-worst-offender-with-76-infringement-proceedings/


And here's an example of how EU voters in Germany & beyond are voting for change:
https://www.euractiv.com/section/energy-environment/news/fact-check-germany-is-eus-fifth-worst-offender-with-76-infringement-proceedings/

Plenty  beyond  the UK & Brexiteers say the EU is doomed to collapse or at least major change, even within the EU. But if it makes remainers rejoiners feel better go ahead and ignore those, continuing to deride Brexiters in the same fashion that so far has cost them the EU and now probably a clean-break Brexit too,

Thrugelmir

Herzlos said:

Thrugelmir said:

Herzlos said:

I didn't say they were fully cohesive, but is there any indication that they're going to break cohesion regarding Brexit? The Brexiteers have been claiming that's about to happen for about 4 years now and they haven't budged.

Amounts to the same thing. Self protectionism. Me first. When it comes to National interests. 

This idea that the EU is about to collapse anyway / without us / because of brexit is pure fantasy. It's always had it's internal divisions and politics (like we have), but it (unlike us) managed to provide a united front when it comes to external negotiations.

No one is suggesting a collapse. More of a realignment of relationships. 

United fronts are easy when everybody says I want "x" and everybody else has no option but to agree. 

Herzlos

Plenty of Brexiteers are claiming the EU is about to collapse. Look at how often it comes up in the Express:

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=site:express.co.uk+EU+collapse

No-one on here has claimed the EU is about to collapse in the last few pages, but it's been a constant theme for the last 4 years no matter how hard you want to try and deny it.

Each state in the EU has the option to disagree with any part of the UK's deal (and we stand a very real risk of being blocked out on WTO because we get veto'd by someone). They haven't yet, why?

_mayonnaise_

Ruprecht said:

Here's how much the EU agree with each other & a record of EU infringement proceedings against member countries for not adhering to EU rules:
https://www.euractiv.com/section/energy-environment/news/fact-check-germany-is-eus-fifth-worst-offender-with-76-infringement-proceedings/

Sure there are infringments and there are proceedings to deal with them. So?

It would be like saying the Premier League is doomed and about to collapse because the F.A. regularly fines a club or a player.

Laughable barrel scraping.

Thrugelmir

Herzlos said:

No-one on here has claimed the EU is about to collapse in the last few pages, but it's been a constant theme for the last 4 years no matter how hard you want to try and deny it.

No-one actually cares. It's a political decision for the electorate in each individual member state.