Will Brexit happen?

SpiderLegs

Moby wrote: »

Many of the very people who voted brexit are going to be affected the most economically. How do brexiteers living in the deprived North, Midlands, coastal towns etc feel they are going to benefit from Johnsons deal? Johnson has moved the sections on employment rights and environmental standards from the withdrawal agreement to the political declaration for a reason. The withdrawal agreement is law and the declaration a vague statement of aspiration. He and the ERG are determined to change us into a low tax, low regulation economy.

So bring down the govt, win an election, put whatever rules you (labour?) want in place.

The opposition can do all of that nice and easily now that the eu are going to extend.

Why aren’t they?

Moby

SpiderLegs wrote: »

So bring down the govt, win an election, put whatever rules you (labour?) want in place.

The opposition can do all of that nice and easily now that the eu are going to extend.

Why aren’t they?

....Because I think a lot of people who voted brexit are pretty entrenched and will want it implemented no matter the consequences for them or anyone else. Those attitudes would spill over into the election. The other issues would be drowned out.

You see it time and time again on these threads......there is very little comment on how brexit or Johnson and his policies will advance the lives of those disadvantaged areas that voted for brexit. It's all about 'he speaks for me' and that seems to be purely about getting brexit done without any examination of the implications and consequences and benefits.

SpiderLegs

Moby wrote: »

....Because I think a lot of people who voted brexit are pretty entrenched and will want it implemented no matter the consequences for them or anyone else. Those attitudes would spill over into the election. The other issues would be drowned out.

You see it time and time again on these threads......there is very little comment on how brexit or Johnson and his policies will advance the lives of those disadvantaged areas that voted for brexit. It's all about 'he speaks for me' and that seems to be purely about getting brexit done without any examination of the implications and consequences and benefits.

Are you saying that you don’t trust the electorate to vote in the way you want them to?
And that your way is the right way and any other way is wrong?
Not much point anyone having a vote if someone else is just going to decide for us all instead.

Doesn’t that really mean that the non-Boris camp isn’t doing a very good job of its primary function - ie to have policies that will get the support of voters?

Shouldn’t you be telling them to pull their fingers out and start convincing people instead of just blaming the other side for really just being better at it?

I do hope you aren’t going to tell me it’s all the fault of the right wing press....

Takedap

Moby wrote: »

You see it time and time again on these threads......there is very little comment on how brexit or Johnson and his policies will advance the lives of those disadvantaged areas that voted for brexit. It's all about 'he speaks for me' and that seems to be purely about getting brexit done without any examination of the implications and consequences and benefits.

It's about time that we just stood back & let them have their hard Brexit.
Then we can try to pick up the pieces later.
It's the only way they they will ever !!!!!! and it'll stop us being the bad guys.

Moby

SpiderLegs wrote: »

Are you saying that you don’t trust the electorate to vote in the way you want them to?
And that your way is the right way and any other way is wrong?
Not much point anyone having a vote if someone else is just going to decide for us all instead.

Doesn’t that really mean that the non-Boris camp isn’t doing a very good job of its primary function - ie to have policies that will get the support of voters?

Shouldn’t you be telling them to pull their fingers out and start convincing people instead of just blaming the other side for really just being better at it?

I do hope you aren’t going to tell me it’s all the fault of the right wing press....

Don't agree.... the culture war of brexit would subsume normal election discourse and solve nothing.

anotheruser

BobQ wrote: »

Some of us who have read into the detail and reached varying degrees of informed decisions. Others are too busy or cannot be bothered to research the matter And others are incapable of understanding the issues.

And I find a large amount of people who voted remain, believe 100% that something they have read somewhere is the absolute truth, no matter what.

Fact is, if we don't leave, that makes any sort of vote, be it a referendum or a vote for our local MPs a waste of time.
You may not like it, but you must accept the result.

phillw

anotheruser wrote: »

And I find a large amount of people who voted remain, believe 100% that something they have read somewhere is the absolute truth, no matter what.

That is better than people who believe something they have just made up.

anotheruser wrote: »

Fact is, if we don't leave, that makes any sort of vote, be it a referendum or a vote for our local MPs a waste of time.
You may not like it, but you must accept the result.

Fortunately there is nothing stopping us from having another vote, we do it all the time. It's called democracy.

Rich2808

phillw wrote: »

That is better than people who believe something they have just made up.



Fortunately there is nothing stopping us from having another vote, we do it all the time. It's called democracy.

Of course if you don't implement the previous vote - what is the point one might argue of another vote? Do you just keep voting until your side wins?

Some might suggest we have already voted to leave - so any further vote should be accept the deal or leave with no deal? Once we have left - after a suitable period (41 years perhaps) we can hold another once in a generation vote to go back.

As to the question in hand I would suggest Brexit will happen sooner or later – as Tories are now a Brexit party and if and when they win a majority (with or without Farage) they will take us out.

Because the old party allegiances are less important it seems than whether you voted leave or remain.

Arklight

Maybe we should have a referendum on whether there should be another referendum.

mumf

You lot still squabbling? You are as bad as the useless trash in parliament. Who cares anymore?