Will Brexit happen?

phillw

BikingBud wrote: »

Equally, all those politicians that feel that they know better than the electorate and decide that they do not wish to deliver what they previously agreed to, A50, may find that their tenure is shorter than they expected.

A Vengeful threat?

My vote in 2017 is still valid until 2022. So a general election now would be a betrayal of my democratic vote.

triathlon

Arklight wrote: »

I don't think people who identify with Remain have much interest in reconciling with Leavers. Considering the core motivation for most Leave voters that most Remain voters have met, is small minded nationalism, xenophobic prejudice, or just good old fashioned racism; there doesn't appear to be common ground.

I wouldn't want to meet with the vast majority of them, and to be fair I didn't before Brexit was even a word.

BobQ

All that said it does look like we are going to leave.

I feel mixed emotions. First you have the small minded supporters who present no rationale arguments for why they support Brexit will mostly face the consequences of their folly. But that is their democratic right.

Then you have those who seem to live under the misapprehension that any deal is fine as long as we leave will gradually learn they have been conned. I do not look forward to living in brave new world. Amber Rudd said today she will support the deal even though it is a poor deal after which she expects our GDP to decline by 4-6%.

And the rest will just have to suck it up.

Personally I hate the idea of where this country is going, poorer, reduced working and consumer rights, a further decline in public services, an increasingly selfish society and less influential country.

The alternative view is that I can afford to live in this little England so why should I care.

phillw

BobQ wrote: »

Then you have those who seem to live under the misapprehension that any deal is fine as long as we leave will gradually learn they have been conned.

Some leave voters have already realized that is the case. Soon it will just be the type of nasty people who were at the march yesterday trolling the people asking for more democracy.

BobQ

BikingBud wrote: »

A
You can try and dress it up in however many distasteful ways as you may wish and try to undermine the: personal qualities, levels of intelligence, motivation or other attributes of those that voted to leave and when you do you only show your prejudices and lack of belief in democracy.

I will not comment on your underlined comments which are directed elsewhere.

However, I agree with you that the nature of democracy is that everyone is able to vote whatever their intelligence and all votes are equal. I would not want it any other way.

The problem with the 2016 referendum was that it grossly simplified a complex issue purely to try and reconcile the Tory Party's internal divisions. That said it also suited Labour who had some divisions of their own, which the referendum exacerbated.

But over the past three years unless you only speak to "like minded people" there is a great diversity of reasons why people cast their vote as they did. These included anti-immigration, a belief that the EU was responsible for all their problems and a belief that we would be better off by leaving. These days many do not even know why they voted Leave.

Some of us who have read into the detail and reached varying degrees of informed decisions. Others are too busy or cannot be bothered to research the matter And others are incapable of understanding the issues. That cannot surely be denied.

The problem we have now is that we have a polarised electorate many of whom do not care what terms we leave on and simply believe in Boris.

phillw

BobQ wrote: »

The problem we have now is that we have a polarised electorate many of whom do not care what terms we leave on and simply believe in Serial Liar Boris.

Fixed that for you.

ess0two

BobQ wrote: »

All that said it does look like we are going to leave.

I feel mixed emotions. First you have the small minded supporters who present no rationale arguments for why they support Brexit will mostly face the consequences of their folly. But that is their democratic right.

Then you have those who seem to live under the misapprehension that any deal is fine as long as we leave will gradually learn they have been conned. I do not look forward to living in brave new world. Amber Rudd said today she will support the deal even though it is a poor deal after which she expects our GDP to decline by 4-6%.

And the rest will just have to suck it up.

Personally I hate the idea of where this country is going, poorer, reduced working and consumer rights, a further decline in public services, an increasingly selfish society and less influential country.

The alternative view is that I can afford to live in this little England so why should I care.

You've changed your tune, thought you were leaving the UK.

Arklight

I simply don't believe that the majority of people who voted Leave really care that much about it happening.

Prior to the referendum, which had nothing to do with any political necessity, being entirely down to the Tories endless internal squabbles, UKIP had one MP.

People I know who voted Leave never once mentioned Europe as a source of their troubles before the referendum.

All this will of the people bollards is manufactured by the right wing press. The only group that has a strong conviction is Remain. They should be listened to.

fred246

I wonder how elections will be held in future. The person with the most votes is elected, except in cases where the people who voted for the 2nd candidate moan enough, in which case the 2nd candidate will replace the elected candidate.

Moby

Many of the very people who voted brexit are going to be affected the most economically. How do brexiteers living in the deprived North, Midlands, coastal towns etc feel they are going to benefit from Johnsons deal? Johnson has moved the sections on employment rights and environmental standards from the withdrawal agreement to the political declaration for a reason. The withdrawal agreement is law and the declaration a vague statement of aspiration. He and the ERG are determined to change us into a low tax, low regulation economy.