BW Legal - Any help very much appreciated...

Coupon-mad

To clarify.... my wife is the RK and was the driver.

So she writes as per bargepole's first para of advice:

So if you were the driver, ditch all the stuff about POFA, and write an account of what happened when you entered the car park, were the signs clear, did you display a permit or pay a tariff if relevant, and so on.

She does not go into detail about nappies, but can at WS stage! The defence should just be about the facts and the grace periods that should apply, then the usual template short defence points seen in bargepole's concise examples. That will do.

Other defence threads would show you how she can write about grace periods succinctly. Search the forum for defence grace period statement of truth if you want to see some more.

NeilCr

I am sorry but, in the nicest possible sense, why the heck are you losing work and missing time with your kids to do this?

didgeridoooo

No offence meant I am sure, and none taken.



I am currently trying to come up with an answer for that question, not for you, but for me! I will gladly pass on the answer if I find one! I spent 8 years fighting a legal case which didn't have a penny in it for me, but was a point of principle. Resulted in 10+million for retired victims of a large fraud. The satisfaction was immense, especially winning an apparently "unwinniable" case (according to 3 different large law firms), but I did say I would never take on a battle over principle again. I broke that promise to myself here, and am in a quandary over whether I should be focussed on the principle of it, or the £100 quid which quite honestly, I would pay back in a heart beat to get back the last month and do some real work with that time.



I honestly don't know. I guess I just despise being bent over by a shower of unmentionables. I wish I could shake that off sometimes.

NeilCr

Absolutely no offence meant and I am glad that you got that!

I understand the principle angle but there is also a balance to be had. You can do all of the things (kids, work and fighting the ticket) - it just seems you have got rather obsessed with this and it has somewhat taken over your life.

It may be best to just bang out the best (not long!) defence you can tomorrow and send it.

Btw. Huge plaudits for fighting and winning a case which meant so much to so many people.

[Deleted User]

Agree with all the foregoing. A defence should contain a concise statement of the facts together with your argument. V.1 had little or no info even that a car was parked!

Everyone should be mindful of the value of their time. "Principles cost money" so the trite phrase goes - it may not be worth fighting. Others quite enjoy the intellectual challenge and do have the time.

None of us can answer that, but the scroats aren't worth stress or making yourself Ill over.

Best wishes, Johnersh.

didgeridoooo

NeilCr wrote: »

I understand the principle angle but there is also a balance to be had. You can do all of the things (kids, work and fighting the ticket) - it just seems you have got rather obsessed with this and it has somewhat taken over your life.

You may have hit the nail on the head there. My blindness subsided, so just being hit over the head with a sledgehammer now hopefully only until morning! I came back to try again, as it occurred to me while laying under a cold flannel, what a **** I must be if I let BWL get the better of me. I have sat in rooms with QCs in the most expensive law firm in the UK (our opponent!) and held my own at least in conversation! (I had no hand in the legal stuff obviously. I am just a patsy )



I am now a bit stuck because I am scared to lose the protection of POFA, but scared to lose the protection of the true events. Then I tied myself in knots trying to word a well-crafted walk down the fishing line between the two. i.e. first POFA - this is a flawed claim from the start , but then 3rd person references to what the driver did etc, hoping the only judge who will force that “were you driving?” question and bring the claim into full driver defence mode, will be a Judge who already was probably going to rule against me anyway! Just typing this I can see how over-complicated I made it.

There simply is no perfect approach, just a good one, or another good one! I just DETEST LOSING, at least when I know there is injustice going on, and there is here. Just the way they lied about the photos "clearly showing entry signs" which is utter BS, that makes my teeth hurt with determination to beat the swines on their own turf. But that “indignant rage” as Jonersh so wonderfully labelled it, could be my own undoing.

NeilCr wrote: »

Btw. Huge plaudits for fighting and winning a case which meant so much to so many people.

Thank you. I would say "I didn't do much", as it’s true from the standpoint of WINNING. But I did do a lot of the necessary but crappy stuff. It just wasn't important stuff, a large legal team did all the real stuff. I just had the biggest fight out of everyone, even though my claim was statute barred, so I took it on. I just rallied support, pounded the pavements from one law firm to the next, administered the claimants and went and did some digging when needed. All low tech low intellect stuff, but not that unimportant I suppose.

Johnersh wrote: »

Everyone should be mindful of the value of their time. "Principles cost money" so the trite phrase goes

Oh my God, why didn’t I hear of that phrase before, perchance a decade ago?! hahaha.

Johnersh wrote: »

Others quite enjoy the intellectual challenge and do have the time.

Yes, I definitely enjoy that, but the time element is something I didn’t really consider fully. The silly thing is, for weeks of time, I don’t think I have progressed much.

Johnersh wrote: »

None of us can answer that, but the scroats aren't worth stress or making yourself Ill over.

That term takes me back a bit! Agreed, entirely. Rather than cave in (I have today I confess, but not to them, to myself and my mistakes) I will try to discipline my approach and how MUCH time I give it. If I lose I lose, but with all the stuff I have learned (POFA, EA, contract law etc) I am well placed to put up a reasonable fight with little effort for each of the forthcoming scroteful challenges.

Thanks both of you, and to everyone else on here. I have said it before, but what a truly great place this is.


:beer:

bargepole

OP you are getting a bit OCD about this.

Having appeared for parties in hundreds of small claims hearings, not just parking matters, it really all comes down to the lottery of which of the three types of Judge you get on the day of the hearing.

Many Judges in many courts are completely fed up with the likes of Gladstones, BW Legal, etc., and their rubbish templated trial bundles. They will usually find any reason they can to dismiss the claim in favour of the motorist - in some cases, for a reason that wasn't even pleaded in the Defence.

Other Judges take a balanced approach, giving each side a fair hearing, and deciding the outcome on the balance of evidence and arguments.

The third type, thankfully a minority, believe that Beavis trumps everything, there are no defences, and they are not going against the ruling of the Supreme Court. Get one of these, and nothing you write or say will make a jot of difference.

didgeridoooo

Thanks BP. Today is an OCD free day, I have decreed it so.


Yes, I was wondering that at 2am! (Before OCD was outlawed). basically need to just present enough for one of Judge type A or B to have valid reasons to rule against BWL. Get Type C and may as well have Hepatitis C too. Which speaks to a valid reason not to obsess (further). Thanks for your comments, much appreciated and useful as always.



I have two important quick questions if anyone can answer -



1. The official deadline day for my defence submission is Monday. Does that mean it must be submitted ON Monday, or BY Monday (i.e. today?).

2. Witness Statement - To me that term means the events of the actual incident, nothing more. I don't think that applies here, as people have mentioned that the WS is the place to expand on the brief defence points, if needed, such as with citations or case law, or whatever else, IF needed. Is that definitely right, or is the skeleton the place for that? CM said the Skeleton is a kind of "shopping list", which makes sense, but does that mean it's just for my use at the hearing, or is it open info for the Judge and Claimant to read too? (So no doodles of BWL staff ). I just want to clarify as I will soon need to decide what to put in WS and whether or not to bother with SAs. Thanks

Coupon-mad

You will be submitting the defence by email to the CCBC as KeithP explained when you got your Claim form, so you have all weekend (oops, shouldn't tell you that as you need family time!).

Witness Statement - To me that term means the events of the actual incident, nothing more. I don't think that applies here, as people have mentioned that the WS is the place to expand on the brief defence points, if needed, such as with citations or case law, or whatever else, IF needed. Is that definitely right, or is the skeleton the place for that?

If you choose to file & serve a skeleton argument your case law can be annexed to that, if not most people just do a WS 'the story of what happened' which is why I think your wife should defend as driver so that story can be told openly in the WS and at trial.

CM said the Skeleton is a kind of "shopping list", which makes sense, but does that mean it's just for my use at the hearing, or is it open info for the Judge and Claimant to read too?

Either, your choice, or don't do one at all and bung the legal transcripts (NOT Beavis, not needed as it's well known and accessible to any Judge) in with the WS evidence.

That's what most here do and Judges have proved quite happy with that.

NeilCr

Coupon-mad wrote: »

You will be submitting the defence by email to the CCBC as KeithP explained when you got your Claim form, so you have all weekend (oops, shouldn't tell you that as you need family time!).

.

:D:D

Don't tell him that. Say it needs to be in by 5 tonight!

Didgeridoo - honestly just get it done and send it. Otherwise you, your family and us (:p:p) will have a long weekend

Good luck.