BW Legal - Any help very much appreciated...

didgeridoooo

Johnersh wrote: »

So it may be an idea to start with the parking event and wording.

Jonersh - I have just read your post again, and spotted that line. I am defending as keeper, not driver. I was under the impression I can't go anywhere near the "event" as driver's ID is unknown to the Claimant. Bearing that in mind, do you still think I should discuss the "event", such as the lack of signage, what the driver did and didn't do, could and couldn't see, did and didn't know... etc?


Or stick to POFA and argue that they can't claim due to failure to shift liability to RK properly in accordance with POFA?


Thanks

didgeridoooo

Another quickie for anyone who KNOWS the answer to this....


When should words be capitalised in court papers/defence etc?


Specifically, my understanding is that Claimant, Defendant, Judge etc should be capitalised. But I am unsure on things like abuse of process. Should this be capitalised too?

New defence coming along nicely, now that I have been steered straight again!
Thanks

[Deleted User]

I capitalise the names of the parties in the headings and the parties as a proper noun,as per the below. But the case will not fail on such stylistic guff - don’t sweat the small stuff, but consider the arguments. Always double spaced and number both the paragraphs and the pages, please.

PROFORMA PARKING CLAIMS LTD
Claimant
-and-

BOB SMITH
Defendant

1. The Claimant claims damages from the Defendant pursuant to the Protection of Freedom s Act, Schedule 4 (“POFA”)

Umkomaas

Double spacing between lines. If you're using Word on a PC, you can set the format to automatically double space. Obviously reset it after you're finished with double spacing.

https://www.computerhope.com/jargon/d/doubspac.htm

Coupon-mad

Double or 1.5 line spaced throughout, and Times New Roman 12 or similar readable font.

No capitals in the middle for mention of abuse of process.

I did actually wonder which is more powerful between:


1. A massive list of defence points, to make BWL read it and know they are in for a monster of a fight.

2. A very succinct list, maybe ONLY mentioning POFA breaches and Abuse of Process, and hope that it's stronger through its brevity/conciseness.

BW Legal are not the Claimant and do not turn up themselves.

And IMHO your defence must be somewhere between the two poles you mention above and more succinct, and yes you can shorten the stuff about costs if you wish as long as you are confident enough not to forget it all at the hearing (that's partly why I bung it all in defences, to stop people forgetting WHY a PPC can't randomly add 'debt collector' sixty quid.

I've said before, I worry that people will flail and fail later on, if they have no crib sheet.

Certainly do not attempt a defence that's ONLY ''mentioning POFA breaches and Abuse of Process'' or you will crash & burn! NEVER write a single/two point PPC defence.

KeithP

Letter of Claim is referred to consistently throughout the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims.

That appears to be the most recent official reference, but any of those terms will be acceptable and understood.

didgeridoooo

Thanks very much KP

Umkomaas

worst case I will just memorise it and say it at the hearing.

Don't overestimate the amount of time that might be available. Often these cases can be over and done with in 20 minutes. In some cases the defendant is not even asked to speak by the Judge. Your time to speak is usually in response to the Judge's questions; you won't be allowed to launch into an extended speech.

Your Witness Statement should be your account of events at the time of the alleged infringement. As with my advice on the size of your Defence, it will be the same Judge having to read your WS, with no more or less time available to him/her, so target your efforts towards brevity. Quoting a list of 'legal precedents' that you know nothing of the detail makes the WS look an example of a 'copy and dump' from the internet, something about which some Judges have commented unfavourable. You also run the risk of the Judge asking you to explain how 'X v Y (1874)' impacts your case. 'Err, hmm, ohh, cough, cough' won't be the right answer!

http://www.aboutsmallclaims.co.uk/witness-statements-small-claims-court.html

Your Skeleton Argument (not an essential requirement for the SCC) will be your aide memoire and should look rather similar to a shopping list. A sentence or two (key points, not every point under the sun!) for each issue, just as a reminder to you, the Judge and the claimant, of the major aspects you would like to have covered.

Work on the basis of getting best value if you only have 20 minutes allocated to the case (don't forget that time slot is the total time available for the Judge, the claimant and you to speak).

HTH

didgeridoooo

Excellent advice I am sure, thank you.

You also run the risk of the Judge asking you to explain how 'X v Y (1874)' impacts your case. 'Err, hmm, ohh, cough, cough' won't be the right answer!

Ha ha, I can well imagine. However, I just might surprise him/her!! In all honesty, any cases I quote will be studied hard before hand, precisely to avoid any such embarassment. I hope to make sure the BW Paramonkey has the lion's share of embarassments - but yes I do take your point, fully.

Skeleton - that's handy to know, thanks. I had no real idea what form this should take (if used), and I get it now.

Umkomaas wrote: »

Your Witness Statement should be your account of events at the time of the alleged infringement.

This is one area I am still confused. If defending as keeper, why would anyone discuss what "happened"? Which reminds me, should I remind the Judge in the defence that no presumptions can be made about who was driving?


Bearing in mind everything you have said, it's a tricky gamble isn't it?! One can go hard and length with the defence and WS, which could knock it out of the park, or bore the Judge to tears and find against the Claimant purely out of frustration. On the other hand, a short succinct defence could similarly knock it out the park, if the Judge likes the points and the approach, but on the other hand cut sell the defence short by omitting something which the Judge may not have thought of, or been aware of.


I have just finished my rewrite of the defence. It was very brief to begin with, but I expanded a bit because I feel this is where I am most comfortable with the balance between brevity and thoroughness. If the views are that it's still far too long, I will shorten it. Hopefully not, but I am not here to ignore advice so what will be will be.......



thank you again Umko

Coupon-mad

The defence looks quite long still, and I wouldn't have any of the points about 'non compliance' which seems to be very waffly.

Not sure it deals with the facts of what happened anywhere, as I can't see anything that tells me what the allegation is (not paying at all, for hours of parking? not paying for just minutes and not actually parking? not paying enough?). The Judge will want to know and the more you try not to talk about the event, I suspect the more likely a Judge might be to ask you: ''can we clear up some basic facts not covered in your submissions, Mr Defendant, were you driving?''

Originally Posted by Umkomaas
Your Witness Statement should be your account of events at the time of the alleged infringement.

This is one area I am still confused. If defending as keeper, why would anyone discuss what "happened"? Which reminds me, should I remind the Judge in the defence that no presumptions can be made about who was driving?

You do need to talk about the event as you know it and the car park, as you know it (if you do). If you were the driver would it be easier to defend this one as driver to have a simpler and more honest stance at the hearing?

Think about it and decide (or have we already discussed this, your thread is so long I can't remember)?!

And I can't see that your draft has the usual 'no proprietary interest/landowner authority' point, or is it hidden in there somewhere?