BW Legal - Any help very much appreciated...

Le_Kirk

In my non-lawyerly opinion (just going on what I have read on here) it is way too long. A lot of it should be saved for the Witness Statement (WS) and you should concentrate on legal/technical points. Start with one of the concise defences written by Bargepole and others in the NEWBIE sticky post # 2 and add any points specific to your case.

Good to see you have included the abuse of process points.

didgeridoooo

Thanks LeKirk. I actually did start out with Bargepole's excellent defence, and then I added my points, and then it grew very long legs! Maybe I need to go back. I just worry that if I fail to mention anything in the defence, I won't be able to use it in court, and there are quite a few points I will want to be able to argue, in case it looks I am losing. I will do some major pruning though, thanks.

Umkomaas

Le_Kirk wrote: »

In my non-lawyerly opinion (just going on what I have read on here) it is way too long. A lot of it should be saved for the Witness Statement (WS) and you should concentrate on legal/technical points. Start with one of the concise defences written by Bargepole and others in the NEWBIE sticky post # 2 and add any points specific to your case.

Good to see you have included the abuse of process points.

The draft defence runs to 4,475 words. Legally qualified contributor bargepole's forum example contains just 517.

didgeridoooo

Thanks Ukomas - I assume you're saying mine is far too long?



I don't think Bargepole's contained the coupon-mad text on abuse of process (which everyone suggests should be included). It's also referred to as a "template" which in my understanding doesn't mean it's a guide to length, just a guide to layout and example wording for stating points. However, Baregpole's words are for a case unlike mine (naturally). I took "template" to mean, set it out like this, then add your arguments, and the abuse of process wording. Hey presto, lots of words. Do you have any suggestions for what can be chopped from mine?
thanks

Umkomaas

Hey presto, lots of words.

Which I don't think will impress the Judge. The courts and Judges are under massive time pressures and you're in danger of the Judge skim reading it (or eyes glaze over) and miss particularly salient points. At worst, it might just irritate a Judge with a low patience threshold.

Do you have any suggestions for what can be chopped from mine?

I wouldn't know where to start on the detail in order to crop this down by probably 3,000 words, nor do I have the time. But as a general rule you need to have fairly pithy defence points, not extended verbiage trying to justify each one in great detail. Look how slimline each of bargepole's Defence points are.

didgeridoooo

Thanks very much, that explained it well enough for me to have a crack at it. So i get the feeling sub 2000 words is the goal, and painful as that will be, I will do it somehow!

waamo

You use the witness statement to tell your story and expand on your points. You need only set out your defence points to start.

[Deleted User]

Forget non compliance with the protocol - that can be penalised in costs (if they win) but it ain't a defence. In fact AFAICT your defence doesn't begin until para 9.

I'm not sure a DJ will care about breaches of trade operator protocol either, so I'd lose that.

There's a lot of indignant rage. I'd cull that just because the chance of absolute strike out is rare.

I agree the PoCs are rarely compliant with the CPR but I've watched a time pressed DJ simply say "it's a parking ticket, we all know why we're here!" So it may be an idea to start with the parking event and wording.

Provided you outline your arguments, nothing stops you expanding on them at court.

Umkomaas

@didgeridoooo - Johnersh is a lawyer, so you won't get better on this forum than his advice above.

didgeridoooo

Thanks very much all of you. Johnersh - that sounds like extremely good advice. I will completely re-approach it I think. Hearing that my defence didn't start until point 9, that's a sharp lesson in itself. As for the "indignant rage" - typically bloody laywer, hitting the nail on the head with fancy words - Kidding of course, you're spot on, which you knew you were. I will tone that down. It is a failing of mine to sometimes be a bit emotional with language. I need to imagine my job is to sit and read this guff 8 hours a day (except for golf rounds and snoozing time of course ) and realise that, brutally, my anger/emotion is not only totally uninteresting to the DJ, it's irrelevant to the facts of the case, and will no doubt make his/her day longer and more frustrating, so it can't serve me anyway.



THANK YOU VERY MUCH. Back with a 7 word incisive version tomorrow!