Help!!! Appealing against penalty charge for stopping at yellow box junction

webtalk

Badger_Lady wrote: »

If the police gained powers to prosecute every driver that ever stopped even partially over it, we'd be in trouble.

If there are enough prosecutions for blocking box junctions the majority of people wouldn't venture onto them unless they were certain to clear it. A fine is a pain in the neck - but a bigger pain would be to make the person re-sit the theory part of the driving test. :eek: :eek: :eek:

Maybe that's the way to go because then traffic would flow freely and we'd all be happy bunnies :T - or maybe not 'cause most would find something else to mutter about.:rotfl:

calisto

Sadly I live in a street that used to have free entrance to a major road, without traffic lights.

Since then, with the huge amount of immigrants/students to Liverpool, the local Aldi and Asda which are on the street corner are in constant demand.

This led to a set of traffic lights. No problem - except the timing is slow. But no - the entire entrance to the Aldi car park is rediculously covered by crosshatches - I can see why they need a wide berth on an early morning once a week delivery... but !!!!!!!...

Coupled with this is a TAXI rank just on the edge of the superbly large crosshatch.

This means that no cars can LEGALLY move, if there is any oncoming traffic. Now this is a side street. not a main road. If anyone followed the LAW (and this is Wavertree, Liverpool) they would cause a hold up.

The illegal immigrants, and local Scalies of course just dodge past left right and centre, Sorry if I can say this, but they are not.... CENSORED FOR OWN PROTECTION

mkoprulu

Calisto, i've just posted to pepipoo as well. I've spent some time reading through the posts there as well.

Pompeyrich, i'll think about your suggestion. Good point. I guess i'm just trying to be as unbiased as i can even when appealing...

roddydogs

Camera enforcement, which only applies to drivers who legally register their cars-not the thousands of "Cowboys" out there who cannot be traced is for raising the most money for the least outlay.
Did you know that you can get a ticket for parking more than 1'6" from the kerb-even if you are still in the parking box? you do now!
Stop on a yellow/red line to drop someone off-careful you might be on camera-its not "no Parking" its "No Stopping".
If you want to park illegally go to Epsom,
Surrey, dozens of cars parked on Double Yellow lines, no cameras-Yet

MORPH3US

pompeyrich wrote: »

however the fact that you were stationary inside the box for 10 seconds surely dilutes your argument that it wasnt blocked when you entered

I hope you are being honest about stopping for "10 seconds" because I have no doubt whatsoever that they will have video and not photographic evidence of this "incident"

M

mkoprulu

10 seconds is the time difference between two pictures i received on the PCN. I don't know if it was longer than that. All i have is those pictures.

goldspanners

personally speaking im glad to see this happening and i would love to see this system in use in glasgow and edinburgh,we have a highway code which clearly states safe courteous ways on how to use our roads,a lot of people do not use any of these rules or think that any of them adhere to them.until someone contravenes a rule and it then affects them,then they see the whole point in the rule.
if everyone sat down for half an hour and had a good read at the highway code every now and again we would have a much safer and less congested road system.
if this is the only way you will learn the highway code then this is your fault.
im all for cameras on the motorway aswell catching the middle and outside lane hoggers,cameras on all boxed junctions and catching the chumps who do not understand how to use a slip road and those who use slip roads as extra lanes.

look beyond your own bonnet in future and you wont get caught again at this!

ollyk

I have to say, while I would like to agree with this, there are instances where you just don't have a choice other than to enter a box knowing you arn't going to make it clear! A junction on a light controlled roundabout near me is always partially blocked, and sadly if you try following the rules in this instance you would be stuck for the entire duration of rush hour lol! Sadly, this is only a result of muppets 'trying it on' and hoping the lights will change quickly.
Maybe, clearly sign-posted camera's in this instance might not be a bad idea! I will tell you where they really do need cameras though - Chevrons, especially on merging lanes :mad: think I will leave that for another thread...

goldspanners wrote: »

personally speaking im glad to see this happening and i would love to see this system in use in glasgow and edinburgh,we have a highway code which clearly states safe courteous ways on how to use our roads,a lot of people do not use any of these rules or think that any of them adhere to them.until someone contravenes a rule and it then affects them,then they see the whole point in the rule.
if everyone sat down for half an hour and had a good read at the highway code every now and again we would have a much safer and less congested road system.
if this is the only way you will learn the highway code then this is your fault.
im all for cameras on the motorway aswell catching the middle and outside lane hoggers,cameras on all boxed junctions and catching the chumps who do not understand how to use a slip road and those who use slip roads as extra lanes.

look beyond your own bonnet in future and you wont get caught again at this!

boxsemantic

Entering and stopping IS NOT the correct description of the contravention, it should be entering THEN stopping when there is the PRESENCE of a stationary vehicle.

ONLY that, it's simple. Try this thread and see how they use the boxes for money making fraudulently.

Do a google search for two words.

logic law

It is usually number one in 35 million, down on the left is a nav bar link that says box junctions, a serious case is being exposed there soon.

law, logic,reasoning, truth, falsity, perjury, mendacity ...is the result line

The first PATAS RULING could not be clearer, and they clarify what is commonly misunderstood where the prohibition of entering a BOX junction is wrapped in the misleading Contravention code 31. “Entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited.”

The contravention IS NOT the contravention CODE 31, which is semantically written to deceive you, and is grossly misleading. That can often be 'yellow box junction, boxed language', misleading and fraudulent.

Take care, it has a 'fused contrary pair of gerunds', and makes an 'assumption that if you don't verify, is often FALSE, hence fraudulent.
Simply put, it is NOT entering and stopping … when prohibited.It is entering when prohibited (IF and only if there is a stationary vehicle present) THEN stopping, this means if you enter when not prohibited, IE; when stationary vehicles are ABSENT, then stopping afterwards, is NOT a contravention. 'When prohibited' MEANS IF there is the presence of a stationary vehicle WHEN you ENTER, NOT afterwards.The actual statute that shall be fully explained in unambiguous detail.“to cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles.”

Hence the prohibition IS NOT SIMPLY 'entering and stopping', and the ASSUMPTION “ when prohibited “ has to be proved as a fact.

Happychappy

Jeez, where did you escape from ?