Mobile Affiliates (CoolNewMobile+PhoneBoxDirect+Phones2YourDoor) in Administration

Micky

Human_Writes wrote: »

It's a legally complicated argument, agency law usually makes my head hurt and for proper legal advice you should consult a solicitor.

In the simplest possible terms:

Say your a travel agent for a big airline or holiday company and you tell me my hotel over looks the beach with stunning views and is a five star hotel. On this basis I agree to take up the holiday and turn up to find I'm 40 miles from the beach with a stunning view of a toxic waste dump and its a two star hotel, you acting as the agent have misled me and taken money from me by deception, the holiday I signed up for doesn't exist and I can seek legal redress from the airline or holiday company as under agency law they can be held to be responsible for the actions of their agent.

That being said the networks argue the retailers aren't their agents, the networks have no official agency agreement or contract with dealers, in the same way that your local travel agent will have a contract with Thomas Cook to sell only their holidays for the sake of an example.

The networks maintain that they aren't responsible for the actions of the retailer and this is largely backed by Ofcom in the Code of Practice for Mobile Misselling or whatever its called. In the complaints section it says something along the lines of the networks don't underwrite the legal obligations of other companies, meaning if the dealer goes bust the networks don't have to pay you the cash back.

Most people who argue the dealers are the agents of the network and are responsible for paying cash back, argue this on the principle of implied agency, " i.e. they are their agents because they sold me the phone" by and large the courts shoot them down in flames on this because there are two seperate contracts. You have one contract for the provision of airtime with the network and one for the provision of cash back with the retailer. The retailers do sell for multiple mobile networks in most cases as well so they can't be seen as an agent of Vodafone in the same way your travel agent could been seen as an agent of Thomas Cook.

I think I've only ever seen press coverage of one case where someone managed to get their cash back from the network in court, they took three to their local county court and three forgot to file a defence, the judge awarded £180.00. It was in The Mirror I think but I can't find a link for it, from memory the same article said 3 had never lost a case related to cash back before and they only lost this one because they'd lost the court papers due to admin error and were considering an appeal. Most other networks say they haven't lost a case for cash back in the courts as well.

If your arguing this with the network your probably on a hiding to nothing.

Has this been tested in High Court? Please provide details of the court cases you mention. The argument is simple, did the network pay the dealer a commission for selling the product? The cashback is intrinsic to the network connection, not the 'phone. I wouldn't place too much value on an article in the Mirror.

My argument would be that the dealer was effectively sub-contracted to the network, this neatly steps round the issue of a dealer selling connections to different networks. Would it stand up in court? I can't answer that, and the few ££££s I've lost in the fiasco probably wouldn't justify the effort.

Sub-contracting a product (or service) does not provide any meaningful defence to the main contractor in the event of breach of contract.

Keith_F

Retail history is littered with tails of crashed cashback deals.

From phones to electrical goods warranties that promised the premium back if you did not claim.

To my knowledge thare has never been a succesful claim against the third party supplier, ie the networks in this case.

The parallel is the guy who some years back purchased a Sony TV with a warranty and premium refund agreement, through a major retailer.

The warranty company went bust so no refund, neither the retailer or Sony were held liable.

I know it is not fair and it is not what you want to hear, but it is the way of the world.

Micky

My argument would be that the network is not a 3rd party, it is effectively the main contractor with regards to the provision of the network connection and subsequent cashback; my argument could only succeed following close examination of the contractual relationship between the network and the dealer. For example, is there a periodic payment from the network to the dealer? Is this payment dependent upon the customer continuing the connection? Is the payment from the dealer to the customer dependent upon payment from the network to the dealer? Or is the payment from the network to the dealer a "once-only" arrangement?

But most importantly, I require knowledge of the contractual arrangements because I feel the time is right for me to become a dealer in mobile phones

punter2_2

I'm an overseas student in UK.
signed up with PBD for a vodafone contract.
now I really feel I can't pay the rents if I don't receive cash-backs or support.

my contract goes from 01-Aug-07 to 01-Aug-08.
and I have residence permit till 01-Feb-08 (i.e. I have to leave country by Feb/08).
was really relying on these cashbacks to pay for the remainder of the contract...

do you think vodafone would let me break out of the contract after Feb/08 ?
technically, I could empty my bank account, leave and not care... but I don't want to get arrested if I travel back to the UK in the future.
don't want to end-up with a criminal record either.

any advice would be appreciated.
Hesam

Mike..P_7

I have recently... October, managed to get Vodafone to pay up my promised cash backs in full.... I had a contract which ran from January 07 till Jan 08 with phones 2u I requested paper billing and it never arrived in time..... After a lenghty communication in which they initially took the approach that they had nothing to do with cash backs, and also blamed the postal services they relented and paid me the whole amount £420 this was after a lot of telephone calls and they also were abysmal with their customer services which i used to back up my case...
i know this isnt totally related but it does go to show that if you press the right buttons the large phone companies do budge a bit
I also feel they are partially responsible because they have gained from this company's (pbd) marketing strategy, with the amount, and value of contracts people hold, so i do feel that there should be a compromise position.....
As it stands at the moment the likes of Vodafone, Orange etc who used these "agents" have increased their market share and are leaving the customers with the financial implications.....
If they didnt offer "agent" fees to these companies the companies wouldn't of existed
I also have a contract with PBD so am goin to contact Vodafone and would be glad to hear of other peoples experiences in doing so as if some1 gets a reasonable reply it can be used
mike

SED_3

punter2 wrote: »

I'm an overseas student in UK.
signed up with PBD for a vodafone contract.
now I really feel I can't pay the rents if I don't receive cash-backs or support.

my contract goes from 01-Aug-07 to 01-Aug-08.
and I have residence permit till 01-Feb-08 (i.e. I have to leave country by Feb/08).
was really relying on these cashbacks to pay for the remainder of the contract...

do you think vodafone would let me break out of the contract after Feb/08 ?
technically, I could empty my bank account, leave and not care... but I don't want to get arrested if I travel back to the UK in the future.
don't want to end-up with a criminal record either.

any advice would be appreciated.
Hesam

its unlikely u will be arrested- however your credit rating will be affected so for example u will have probs getting another mobile phone contract

muddyfox470

fista wrote: »

I received a cheque from them on Fri after I threatened them with court action for £180- dya think that'll bounce?

Can I ask when that cheque was due from? and how many times you had to contact them to get them to send out the cheque?

They kept on using the excuse that it had been lost and it would be reissued (all the way from August!)

Ian

lost_out_3

Guys I found this forum where you can find template letters and there a large number of dialamobile memebers and also phone box direct memebers lets fight as a community against this injustice im owed £420 divdied we are notthing together we will succeed this group has a real impact on dialamobile customers and is helping all phone box direct customers priceshock google it

yabbas

Contacted Vodaphone CS yesterday.

Was told they received a memo the day before about this.

CS repeated that he'd remembered the fiasco with Dialaphone and that it took Vodaphone 2-3 weeks to respond with 2 scenarios: 1) End contract early. 2) Reduce contract monthly payments.

He says it may or may not be dealt with quicker (since they've been through this before already) but obviously he couldn't say anything official (since nothing has been said yet) ... he'll copy me on any emails they receive re the subject and will be in touch with me soon if anything changes.



T-mobile were a lot less understanding. "Blah blah not our problem, blah blah terms and conditions, blah blah contract, blah blah liquidation...what's liquidation??" etc

bobstheboy

Hello Robert

Thanks for your email about the cashback offer you had been promised by Cool New Mobile.

Cool New Mobile has recently ceased trading and, we understand, will not be honouring their cashback offer to their customers. This offer was made by Cool New Mobile, not T-Mobile, and we're not able to either provide the cashback offer or terminate your contract. I?m sorry that you have been affected by this Robert.

Since Cool New Mobile is no longer able to support their customers, we'd like to deal with you directly, which means you are entitled to our current ?go direct? discount of £5 (including VAT) off your Flext line rental every month until you renew. Flext remains unique in the market as it automatically adapts to how you use your phone.

If you'd like to take up this offer, please contact us either by replying to this email or by calling our customer services team on 150 from your T-Mobile handset or on 0845 412 5000 from a landline (Calls are charged at local rate if you are a BT customer but if you're with another provider this may vary so do check). Calls to 150 are free of charge for our pay monthly customers. We're here every day from 7am to 10pm.

If you have any more questions, please visit our help & advice section by clicking here or simply reply to this email.

Kind regards


Laura
Customer Services Email Team
T-Mobile

Better than nothing I suppose. I have just over 3 months to run on a £30 a month contract.

Would you accept now or see if they give a better offer ?

Bob