and another one bites the dust.......

Slithery

[ramble on]

Forum moderation can be a tricky balance - you have to have clear, sensible and appropriate rules...

I'm a mod on the technical support forum for a Linux distro. It has a bit of a reputation in the wider Linux community for being incredibly harsh to people that don't follow the rules - for example instantly deleting threads, warning users for any infraction and temp or perma banning people on a regular basis for things as trivial as not sticking 100% to the Code of Conduct and posting questions that have already been answered in the wiki or previous threads - I often tell people off for simply bumping a thread and we quite regularly close and delete new members first posts and just refer them back to the rules they had agreed to have read when they signed up minutes earlier. In fact I'd have deleted this thread after the first post where I help run things as it's in blatant disregard of the rules, as another example any new thread that contained an question already answered in one of G_M's stickies would have been immediately deleted with a harsh 'RTFM' for being an unnecessary waste of resources and duplication of material - I've deleted about 20 threads in the last month and I'm by no way the most active mod. I do have to admit to great satisfaction when I get to swing the great big shiny banhammer we keep polished up in the staff lounge

However, this same distro also has a reputation for having one of the most highly regarded Linux forums and technical wikis on the internet so surely we must be doing something right? Keeping a consistently high signal-to-noise ratio in all threads is a major aim that we manage to achieve in the limited scope of this other forum.

I think one of the main differences between here and my regular place is that we have a well thought-out and detailed set of rules that all of the mods stick to consistently, it should be absolutely clear and obvious to all why action has been taken (all deleted posts/threads are still visible to members for 5 days before permanent deletion). Reports are handled by mods on a first-read basis but we do read them, if it's a simple infraction then it's dealt with straight away (the mods are chosen because they have repeatedly shown good independent judgement) with anything more complex being discussed behind the scenes between the mods before an outcome is decided. These rules have been carefully refined by the community over several years and the reasoning behind all of them is clearly explained.

I admit that this is easier for us than it is for MSE as we can reasonably have rules such as 'politics, religion, and nationality are all banned subjects' because of the different target audiences and scopes of the forums.

If anyone reading this has a few minutes spare and wants to see what I think a decent Code of Conduct looks like then have a read, although the forums themselves are technical in nature this document isn't and I think that the sections about freedom of speech and democracy are particularly insightful on how to moderate online communities.

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Code_of_conduct

Edit - Another link that helps explain what we expect from our members, this one is more technical but definitely still a good read even though the first draft is 15 years old...
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

Edit 2 - The above by no means implies that I think that this is the only way. That's the great thing about forums, they all cater to a different audience. I'm also an active poster on forums that I specifically visit because of all of the trolling and abuse that goes on. I love a good laugh as much as the next person, you just have to be conscious of how context can be lost and pick the appropriate community if you enjoy occasionally making snarky comments that could inflame more sensitive people

[/ramble off]

AFF8879

Gwendo40 wrote: »

Posters on here don't have the power to keep house prices high.... just some of them think they do.

So they'll generally urge people to take on record levels of mortgage debt, encourage people to buy at any cost, advise people to disregard mortgage down valuations and ''find some way to make up the shortfall'', belittle people who dare to suggest that a particular property (or the market in general) is overpriced and poor value etc etc

All under the guise of offering ''impartial'' advice.

We must be using different forums. I’ve never seen a poster here try and persuade people to make up the shortfall in down valuations, in fact in my experience the majority warn them not to overpay and to try and get a reduction or find another property - which is what you’d expect from a fiscally conservative site

silvercar

I would point out that the forum isn’t moderated.

Too many posts being reported leads to action being taken (by the forum team); sometimes the action is wrong. Only the alleged offender is told what they have done wrong and they can appeal if they wish.

It’s not ideal, but the forum is so so big that moderating it would be a task that takes up too much resources.

Gwendo40

AFF8879 wrote: »

We must be using different forums. I’ve never seen a poster here try and persuade people to make up the shortfall in down valuations, in fact in my experience the majority warn them not to overpay and to try and get a reduction or find another property - which is what you’d expect from a fiscally conservative site

Well you've obviously not looked very hard then because I've seen numerous mortgage down valuation threads where the overwhelming ''advice'' is to seek ways to make up the shortfall or try a different lender or increase your deposit etc etc

Negotiating a reduction barely even enters into the discussion.

need_an_answer

From what I can see Pixie hasn't had an enforced PPR but I can understand her desire to not post when she could be monitored in such a hard way as perhaps the next strike and shes out.



If you are reading this pixie,take some time out and come back when it feels right.

You are an invaluable member of this forum

The_Earl_of_Streatham

Slithery wrote: »

[ramble on]
I'm a mod on the technical support forum for a Linux distro. It has a bit of a reputation in the wider Linux community for being incredibly harsh to people that don't follow the rules - for example instantly deleting threads, warning users for any infraction and temp or perma banning people on a regular basis for things as trivial as not sticking 100% to the Code of Conduct and posting questions that have already been answered in the wiki or previous threads - I often tell people off for simply bumping a thread and we quite regularly close and delete new members first posts and just refer them back to the rules they had agreed to have read when they signed up minutes earlier...
[/ramble off]

Have you ever wondered why so few people migrate to Linux?

theartfullodger

The_Earl_of_Streatham wrote: »

Have you ever wondered why so few people migrate to Linux?

Yup: FUD from Windoze and so many people unwilling to take advantage of a free, faster, more secure system: Sigh!

need_an_answer

I can see the forum now becoming a place where there will be "set answers" to posters questions.

1. Please read GM's sticky's at the start of the forum

2. Please dispute any deposit deduction with the relevant deposit service with which your deposit is held.

3. In many cases mould in a property is lifestyle related,please google and read up on the causes before consulting your LL.


4. The end of your fixed AST does not mean the end of your tenancy,it automatically rolls onto a periodic tenancy for which there is no need to be charged for a new contract by a letting agent.


5 in the event of a problem with your rented property contact your LL in writing if the agent is unwilling to help.


6. FTB survey results,they always seem worse when written down and usually the problems are easily rectified at a cost much less than the surveyor has indicated.

7. Noise issues can be remedied by ear plugs,secondary glazing,possibly soundproofing or in extreme cases moving.

8. Why is your house not selling,usually its price but if you would like to post a link others will look but now we cant guarantee that you will get an honest answer as we don't want to offend you and you report our posts as unfair or bullying or whatever.

9. We are unable to answer questions around Scottish housing either buying or renting until Pixie feels able to return as Artful is too busy answering all the queries on his own.

csgohan4

need_an_answer wrote: »

I can see the forum now becoming a place where there will be "set answers" to posters questions.

1. Please read GM's sticky's at the start of the forum

2. Please dispute any deposit deduction with the relevant deposit service with which your deposit is held.

3. In many cases mould in a property is lifestyle related,please google and read up on the causes before consulting your LL.


4. The end of your fixed AST does not mean the end of your tenancy,it automatically rolls onto a periodic tenancy for which there is no need to be charged for a new contract by a letting agent.


5 in the event of a problem with your rented property contact your LL in writing if the agent is unwilling to help.


6. FTB survey results,they always seem worse when written down and usually the problems are easily rectified at a cost much less than the surveyor has indicated.

7. Noise issues can be remedied by ear plugs,secondary glazing,possibly soundproofing or in extreme cases moving.

8. Why is your house not selling,usually its price but if you would like to post a link others will look but now we cant guarantee that you will get an honest answer as we don't want to offend you and you report our posts as unfair or bullying or whatever.

9. We are unable to answer questions around Scottish housing either buying or renting until Pixie feels able to return as Artful is too busy answering all the queries on his own.

It's because new posters are unaware of the search facility or don't read the stickies

or don't want to do simple research for themselves

I do like number 8 though, made me chuckle, some OP's really do not like being told it's the price

need_an_answer

csgohan4 wrote: »

It's because new posters are unaware of the search facility or don't read the stickies

or don't want to do simple research for themselves

I do like number 8 though, made me chuckle, some OP's really do not like being told it's the price

Personally I don't really mind answering the same questions over and over if the request is genuine,I can appreciate that new posters may not know the search facility exists...it stumps me sometimes too.

What I don't like is the way that some new posters and indeed seasoned posters don't always like the majority answers they are given preferring to challenge rather than try to understand the position they are in.


Some may call that a healthy discussion,some a debate and some will see it as bullying .It often then leads to the OP deleting the main body of their thread and then reporting what they feel "offending" posts that are often then seen by moderators as "out of context" with the original question or situation that was posed. Often it feels as if it is not the original poster who then gets the warning or ban its someone who has simply said what many others are thinking.

Sometimes it feels as if posters come onto the forum under the guise of a new user and expect to be told what they want to hear,even if the truth differs. Some of these posters whilst appearing new users I believe are what is commonly referred to as a troll who has the sole purpose of destruction...and they know exactly how to manipulate the forum to their choosing.

Many of our regular posters have fallen fowl of the trolls and the "snowflake " posters and its a shame when respected posters who have spent many years on the forum feel as if their efforts at helping are not recognised by those who moderate the site. I hope Pixie and anyone else given warnings now or in the future will feel able to return in their own right when they feel ready.The housing forum offers so much help to some people and it would be a big loss to lose a few of the very prolific posters who offer good solid correct advice to those who genuinely want it.


I have no idea what the answer is other than some better moderation and more consideration being given to a poster who has clearly been around and knows their stuff in greater depth than someone who has a post count of less than 10 and is clearly out to be entertained during the school holidays.