If there isn't a hard-border what would stop Eastern European immigrants entering UK via Ireland??

buglawton

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

I know of many hotels that are frequently unable to sell some rooms because they don't have and can't hire enough staff to make up all the beds in time.

And I've seen many restaurants and cafes forced into reducing opening hours or trading areas or product choice, or increasing customer wait times and thus negatively impacting income, because of staff shortages.

Of course a typical uninformed punter on the street, blissfully ignorant of the ways businesses have to compensate for critical staff shortages, would likely never notice... After all if the hotel is 'sold out' they stay somewhere else. Never knowing that the hotel is suffering from unmade beds and unsold rooms.

It is a fact that there are severe and critical staff shortages across huge swathes of the UK, things are so bad that many times people cannot operate their businesses at a normal level, and have to reduce opening hours or production or the services offered to compensate.

Denying the truth in this regard doesn't help to solve the problem.

In France it's common to turn up at and check out of an an entirely unmanned hotel, entry by card and code.

In Australia all large cafes/snack bars (and many small ones) hand you an electronic gizmo, customer is paged to collect their order once it's ready.

The above to cope with the high cost/lack of staff.
Funny old world, eh?

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Matt_L wrote: »

In what area do you live Hamish??

Scotland.

I just don't believe any of it.

I think this is part of the problem with Brexit - people see very different realities as to what life in the UK is really like.

Unemployment where I live and work is often below 2% and getting a job is as easy as walking into a half dozen businesses and just handing in your CV. The streets are full of signs in business windows looking for staff.

The only people unemployed up here are the people who have absolutely no desire to work - and businesses are crying out for employees.

So people like us tear our hair out when people like you don't understand the reality of life in the huge parts of the UK that are like this.

We're at record low unemployment and record high employment, we already can't get staff for love or money, and you want to make the situation worse and throttle the ability of businesses to succeed.

How on earth is that good for anyone?

mc1960

A hard border wouldn't make one bit of difference. Before the Good Friday Agreement there were border controls but so few that anyone, if they wanted, could cross into the North of Ireland from the South unhindered. Like Scotland the north of Ireland voted to remain in the EU. It would benefit them to have the backstop continuing with free trade, who in their right mind would want to be excluded from that!! The DUP are living in the dark ages and need to consider what is really best for all the people of the north rather than basing it on being British. It is a complete breach of the GFA for a hard border to be put in place but then again why worry about peace..

buglawton

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Scotland.
I think this is part of the problem with Brexit - people see very different realities as to what life in the UK is really like.

Unemployment where I live and work is often below 2% and getting a job is as easy as walking into a half dozen businesses and just handing in your CV. The streets are full of signs in business windows looking for staff.

The only people unemployed up here are the people who have absolutely no desire to work - and businesses are crying out for employees.

So people like us tear our hair out when people like you don't understand the reality of life in the huge parts of the UK that are like this.

We're at record low unemployment and record high employment, we already can't get staff for love or money, and you want to make the situation worse and throttle the ability of businesses to succeed.

How on earth is that good for anyone?

Where I live it's very similar, however the employees that businesses are crying out for have to be cheap. And cheap employees can barely afford to live around here due to the acute housing shortage.
So there's the rub.

J_Nostin

Matt_L wrote: »

In what area do you live Hamish??

Lots of your above post are absolute rubbish imo, not trying to be rude in any way but I just don't believe any of it.

Making stories up to try and push your argument only creates problems....

Yes, you might note the use of "I know of" and "I've seen" when similar comments from others are derided as being anecdotal.

So again, I have never been refused hotel accommodation because of unmade beds or otherwise lack of staff. I regularly use in this country these as part of my work, and I have just recently booked for another stay in Hamish's country too so I have direct and relevant experience. Yes it is anecdotal but I use them. Others do too.

So yes, I too think Hamish sees (how did he put it?) "very different realities as to what life in the UK is really like" perhaps because of his Scottish isolation? The reality is that there are not shortages. It's been said, some are worrying that there might be in the future but unless you live in some rare place like Hamish seems to do where they obviously have difficulties attracting workers for some reason, there is no real shortage of workers so the "huge parts of the UK that are like this" which Hamish describes is absolute tosh.

I too have seen prospective workers queueing for the chance of work, not only in your Manchester and in London but in Birmingham, Leeds, Liverpool and Leicester too. Why are these people not travelling to where there IS work, after getting here from elsewhere including eastern European countries?

I wonder why the area Hamish lives is struggling? Perhaps Hamish would enlighten us, because most of us do not have problems recruiting.

J_Nostin

buglawton wrote: »

Where I live it's very similar, however the employees that businesses are crying out for have to be cheap. And cheap employees can barely afford to live around here due to the acute housing shortage.
So there's the rub.

Your earlier post demonstrates how other countries manage. Here though there has been so much readily-available cheap labour that companies have had no incentive to seek such solutions. That's in large part why UK productivity per person is so poor. It has been cheaper to pay another cheap worker than to mechanise, automate or otherwise find solutions.
Keep importing hundreds of thousands of such workers and you are suppressing not just productivity but wages too, yet those responsible are now complaining that their source of cheap labour is drying-up. What a shame for those greedy employers.

Herzlos

J_Nostin wrote: »

So again, I have never been refused hotel accommodation because of unmade beds or otherwise lack of staff.

You wouldn't, but you've probably stayed in rooms that weren't cleaned as thoroughly as they should have been because the cleaning team was understaffed, or paid a slightly higher room rate because the hotel has had to resort to temp/agency workers to fill gaps.

Andy_L

buglawton wrote: »

In France it's common to turn up at and check out of an an entirely unmanned hotel, entry by card and code.

So they save on front desk staff - they still need people to make the beds & do the cleaning/laundry

movilogo

People those who cry that lower paid migrants would not come post Brexit, are not looking into bigger picture.

These people are paid lower wage which generates handsome profits to some business owners only.

Due to their lower pay, the taxpayers need to top up their wage. They are also putting load on public services like NHS, schools etc. Those who argue those migrants are young and healthy and don't drain on NHS, are forgetting that they are eligible to bring their dependends who could be old and unhealthy.

If some business models are based on unlimited number of migrants coming from EU, I'd rather see those businesses wind up rather than tax payers continuously trying to support them.

Many businesses bring labour outside of EU via work permit route. Same can happen for EU labours.

kabayiri

https://qz.com/1449634/amazons-reduced-holiday-hiring-is-a-bad-sign-for-human-workers/

This is one take on how one of the world's global tech giants, headed up by the world's richest person, is approaching the issue of labour.

They are hiring less seasonal workers, not because of slumping demand, but because of increased use of automation. They bought a smart robotics company too.

I'm afraid Hamish's argument on human labour is symptomatic of people who look backwards, rather than looking forwards.

There's a company not so far from Norwich. They make display stands. They have replaced planning with the ability to pick up transient migrant labour up from street corners. This is reminiscent of 1930s America.

Part of the problem faced in Hamish's part of the world is that migrant workers don't want to go to Scotland. Even Syrian refugees who were allocated to Scotland felt isolated and wanted to move to Manchester and London.