If there isn't a hard-border what would stop Eastern European immigrants entering UK via Ireland??

David_Evans

Rich2808 wrote: »

I expect there are many millions perhaps tens if not hundreds of millions of people in developing nations in Africa and Asia who would love to move to the UK. On your logic we should let everyone come as it would boost GDP - whether they are a brain surgeon or have no skills at all.

Of course in reality quality of life, infrastructure, space and housing are also factors. But I am sure we can move at least 20 people into your house alone - you surely won't mind as the boost to 'GDP' would be worth it!

Then who would provide the labour for the mines etc in Africa?
Obviously the cost of labour in Africa would rise, house prices there would fall.
So not everyone would want to leave - because they would have opportunities in Africa.

Plenty of British people work in Africa. Where do you think their wages come from?

Rich2808

David_Evans wrote: »

So how many brain surgeons would you allow in?
What do you think would happen to the brain surgeons we currently have in the UK, if we allowed in more brain surgeons, but less patients?

If you only allow in skilled migrants, then the price for that labour skill will drop.

One person who probably understands supply and demand well is the former commodities trader, Nigel Farage.

You miss the point though - you reflect current skill shortages. If we have enough brain surgeons - we don't allow more in while we do.

New Zealand following its recent earthquakes has had a huge need for skilled tradesmen to rebuild damaged houses in Wellington and elsewhere. So it manages a temporary need.

Your idea seems to be complete open borders with no controls - the more poor and unskilled the better.

So given we have a housing shortage and people dying on the streets as rough sleepers - can we put you on the list to take at least 20 new arrivals into your home. Cos on the laws of supply and demand - they need housing and you should be obliged to supply it in the interests of boosting GDP?

Or are they just to be placed in poor areas - far away from the nice middle class areas open borders champagne socialists and liberals tend to live in - albeit available to clean your house for a developing world wage when required!

michaels

TLDR

Movement of people will continue to not be an issue because we don't police the border now

Movement of goods could be managed 'electronically' - paperwork sent by PC, border crossings monitored by CCTV with spot checks (away from the border

However this is not what the 'no hard border' is about, it is actually the fact that if the two sides of the borders have different regulations, workers rights etc then it will no longer be possible for the Island of Ireland to operate as a single seamless supply chain/market especially for agriculture which is the biggie.

David_Evans

Rich2808 wrote: »

You miss the point though - you reflect current skill shortages. If we have enough brain surgeons - we don't allow more in while we do.

New Zealand following its recent earthquakes has had a huge need for skilled tradesmen to rebuild damaged houses in Wellington and elsewhere. So it manages a temporary need.

Your idea seems to be complete open borders with no controls - the more poor and unskilled the better.

So given we have a housing shortage and people dying on the streets as rough sleepers - can we put you on the list to take at least 20 new arrivals into your home. Cos on the laws of supply and demand - they need housing and you should be obliged to supply it in the interests of boosting GDP?

Or are they just to be placed in poor areas - far away from the nice middle class areas open borders champagne socialists and liberals tend to live in - albeit available to clean your house for a developing world wage when required!

Who decides when 'we' have enough brain surgeons though?
To the brain surgeon any competition will drive down his wages.

Why would I want 20 people living in my house?
That makes no sense - I'm not a landlord. If I was, then great news - more customers.

A landlord is not 'obliged' to provide housing and a brain surgeon is not 'obliged' to provide surgery.
Tesco is not 'obliged' to provide me (or immigrants) with food.

Everyone sells their labour or assets for payment.

Listen to Peter Schiff - he will educate you better than the politicians.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Rich2808 wrote: »

So given we have a housing shortage

Then build more houses.

Because we're not going to cure a housing shortage by also creating a worker shortage.

batg

David_Evans wrote: »

So how many brain surgeons would you allow in?
What do you think would happen to the brain surgeons we currently have in the UK, if we allowed in more brain surgeons, but less patients?

If you only allow in skilled migrants, then the price for that labour skill will drop.

One person who probably understands supply and demand well is the former commodities trader, Nigel Farage.

rather a brain surgeon was allowed than someone who picks tatties to be honest.

David_Evans

batg wrote: »

rather a brain surgeon was allowed than someone who picks tatties to be honest.

Presumably because you pick potatoes rather than perform brain surgery?

Herzlos

David_Evans wrote: »

You seem to be suggesting that there could be passport checks between NI and GB mainland?

Even a Corbyn led Labour govt would not want to upset the DUP with this.

The most likely outcome of this situation will be no change.
No change at the NI / RoI border.
No change between NI and GB.

If people or goods are moved across unofficially - then that will just be ignored and not prevented etc.

Effectively there will be no physical 'checks' between the EU (RoI) and the UK.

There may be a theoretical / legal 'border' - but it will not be enforced.

WTO rules require a nation to protect it's borders and the most favoured nation rule means everyone must be treated the same outside an FTA. So we may choose to ignore goods coming in from the EU and consequently the rest of the world, but the EU won't. There will be some checks for goods at least going into the EU.

batg

David_Evans wrote: »

Presumably because you pick potatoes rather than perform brain surgery?

Not with multiple scerlosis I wouldn't be picking tatties would I?
Anyways I bet there are a fair percentage of the FOUR MILLION from Europe who are already here doing that so I don't have to.

I want SKILLED immigrants, not immigrants doing jobs that our lazy population seem to think is beneath them. I've cleaned toilets before before you ask

David_Evans

batg wrote: »

Not with multiple scerlosis I wouldn't be picking tatties would I?
Anyways I bet there are a fair percentage of the FOUR MILLION from Europe who are already here doing that so I don't have to.

I want SKILLED immigrants, not immigrants doing jobs that our lazy population seem to think is beneath them. I've cleaned toilets before before you ask

If you eat potatoes then low agricultural wages benefit you.