Husband of tenants died, wife was given time to pay - now she is refusing to communicate

iammumtoone

I am going to guess at what happened.


Account was in her husbands name only (mistake of his behalf but easily done) Account got frozen on his death.


Widow has no money or access to any until probate (could take a while)


Widow now petrified she will lose her home/not afford to eat on top of dealing with the grief over losing her husband.


Widow made an appointment to speak to council to see if they can help (these appointments take time to be arranged)


Widow now avoiding contact with LA as she doesn't want to admit she has no money (she knows the consequences of this) she can't give reassurance if she will get help (via council) as she doesn't know yet, so easier for her to just avoid the calls (who could blame her).


Personally I would do all you can to gather information in the background but not contact or have the LA contact the women until a couple of days after council meeting (I doubt the council will be able to give her an answer the same day).


Long term think about if this can be resolved if you want this lady to still be your tenant, were they good tenants before? Consider if you do evict her which could take a while then have to re advertise to get someone else in, in that time probate could have been granted and she will be back on track.



People are right you can't just turn up on her doorstep BUT you can contact her to request a visit (check contract on notice you need to give for this). On the visit you are entitled to inspect the property (check contract) she doesn't have to tell you anything about her money situation or how she intends to cover the rent but once you are there if you ask in a sympathetic way she might open up and tell you.

Hurdler

Tiglet2 wrote: »

Regarding the account being frozen: This is exactly what happens once you inform the bank that the account holder has passed away and have provided the Death Certificate. The account was in his sole name. If the account had been in joint names, then she would have still had access to the account. Unfortunately, now the account has been frozen, the funds will not be accessible until probate has been granted. Any direct debits will have to be transferred to her own account whether or not she has the means to pay them.

This happened to me. My husband died, his sole account (from which all direct debits were held) was frozen and it took 4 months for me to obtain probate. At no point did the bank enquire how I was to manage the many bills. In the meantime, I had to manage on savings and a part time job until the Grant of Probate allowed me to have access to monies held in the bank account and obtain insurance policies.

If your tenant does not have an adequate savings cushion or a job to pay the bills, then I'm not sure what she can do, other than borrow money from friends and family. While this is not your problem per se, since you employ a letting agent to manage the let, I would be inclined to leave them to deal with this and perhaps you could take out your frustrations on them rather than the tenant. Unfortunately, in situations like this, there is no quick solution. There will be a process to follow and no amount of badgering will make it happen any quicker. Best to think of a plan of how you will manage financially if the process takes longer than you ideally want.

I am NOT taking my frustrations out on her. I sent her a condolence card and the list I have sent to many friends when they have been bereaved of things to do that she might not have thought about. I have NEVER spoken to her or her late husband. Jeez. ALL I needed to know was what the coucil would be able to do.

And yes I have made the LA's inbox hell over the weekend.

Pixie5740

brianposter wrote: »

Never knowing how a tenancy can be legally ended is surely a characteristic of a good and successful landlord. It is only when the landlord gets things wrong that they need to know about the legalities of termination.

I don't follow your logic Brian. Why do you think a landlord would only need to follow the eviction process when they've done something wrong? A good landlord would know how the tenancy can be legally terminated before entering into it in the first place.

Hurdler

Red-Squirrel wrote: »

What happened to the 22nd Feb?

Don't even think about trying to blame posters on here for the fact that you went into business without researching fully.

So my biggest mistake was not researching how to deal with a dead tenant, OK I will accept that. You see I do know how to end tenancies where tenants do not pay but I have been lucky and have never had this issue with anyone I let out to.

I have since found a far better article than your constant heckling and unfortunately for her it looks as though she does inherit the tenancy. As she has already made one payment, she has implied that she wants to (for now anyway) remain in her primary home.

If she cannot afford to stay, I would be open to discussing a lower rent but... she needs to be willing to engage in a dialogue and if she has gone to ground (understandably under the circumstances) then there is not much that can be done.

I can't pitch up unannouced NOR WOULD I, but without some intervention then things look bad for her from a purely business point of view. If I dare add compassion it puts me in a spot of bother, and I have planned for that to a certain point. Beyond that point (22 February looking ahead to the time it takes for two months notice etc) then the decision is clear.

The pure business decision would have been to start legal proceedings as soon as per the terms of the agreement - which is coming up within a day. The compassionate decision is to delay it a month as I originally suggested to them.

You and Pixie have made it perfectly clear that I am at fault as a landlady for not knowing the ins and outs of tenancy termination in the event of a death. You are right. And I will accept that. You also repeatedly insist it is better for me to get out of the business if I am as clueless as you think I am. So be it. The only way for me to do that is to step back and let the legal process take its course as in your eyes there is no room for compassion if I am running this as a business - so logically it is absolutely your input that has forced this decision.

Thankfully for you two... others have been a lot more helpful and understanding and less like trolls. I guess my tenant might thank them too in the long run.

Hurdler

Pixie5740 wrote: »

I don't follow your logic Brian. Why do you think a landlord would only need to follow the eviction process when they've done something wrong? A good landlord would know how the tenancy can be legally terminated before entering into it in the first place.

Pizie - I have admitted freely to you that in your eyes I am a terrible landlady for not knowing how a tenancy can be terminated in the event of death. I am so happy you obviously know the law better than I do in that regard but I have since read up on termination due to death and guess what -she is out of luck. It falls to her to cover the rent.

If/As she cannot (we assume, she still until 22 January to catch up) then it is very clear that on the event of twi months of non-payment, and now no dialogue to look at alternatives that may (or may not) be acceptable - the managing agents are now within their rights to proceed with legal action to recover the rent and I do not have to intervene.

I choose initially to give her an extra month, which was not a business decision, but a compassionate one. As you repeatedly tell me - I need to know what I need to do to end the tenancy. I do. I need to treat it as a business - so... off she goes by the letter of the law.

Simples? No of course not, but then as I have asked you before, please list for me what you have done in this exact situation. You have not, so I have to conclude you are just trolling to feel big at calling someone unsuitable to run a business.

If it were you Pixie... if you were in my position and being so much more knowledgeable about the letter of the law where a tenant dies, what exactly would you do? Instead of telling me how rubbish I am, be helpful (if that is even in your nature)?

Pixie5740

Hurdler wrote: »

Pizie - I have admitted freely to you that in your eyes I am a terrible landlady for not knowing how a tenancy can be terminated in the event of death. I am so happy you obviously no the law better than I do in that regard but I have since read up on termination due to death and guess what -she is out of luck. It falls to her to cover the rent.

If/As she cannot (we assume, she still until 22 January to catch up) then it is very clear that on the event of twi months of non-payment, and now no dialogue to look at alternatives that may (or may not) be acceptable - the managing agents are now within their rights to proceed with legal action to recover the rent and I do not have to intervene.

I choose initially to give her an extra month, which was not a business decision, but a compassionate one. As you repeatedly tell me - I need to know what I need to do to end the tenancy. I do. I need to treat it as a business - so... off she goes by the letter of the law.

Simples? No of course not, but then as I have asked you before, please list for me what you have done in this exact situation. You have not, so I have to conclude you are just trolling to feel big at calling someone unsuitable to run a business.

If it were you Pixie... if you were in my position and being so much more knowledgeable about the letter of the law where a tenant dies, what exactly would you do? Instead of telling me how rubbish I am, be helpful (if that is even in your nature)?

Pick your toys up off the floor and go back and read #55. I take you have established if there was a joint tenancy and/or the tenancy is a statutory periodic AST if you now know the legal position.

Hurdler

iammumtoone wrote: »

I am going to guess at what happened.


Account was in her husbands name only (mistake of his behalf but easily done) Account got frozen on his death.


Widow has no money or access to any until probate (could take a while)


Widow now petrified she will lose her home/not afford to eat on top of dealing with the grief over losing her husband.


Widow made an appointment to speak to council to see if they can help (these appointments take time to be arranged)


Widow now avoiding contact with LA as she doesn't want to admit she has no money (she knows the consequences of this) she can't give reassurance if she will get help (via council) as she doesn't know yet, so easier for her to just avoid the calls (who could blame her).


Personally I would do all you can to gather information in the background but not contact or have the LA contact the women until a couple of days after council meeting (I doubt the council will be able to give her an answer the same day).


Long term think about if this can be resolved if you want this lady to still be your tenant, were they good tenants before? Consider if you do evict her which could take a while then have to re advertise to get someone else in, in that time probate could have been granted and she will be back on track.



People are right you can't just turn up on her doorstep BUT you can contact her to request a visit (check contract on notice you need to give for this). On the visit you are entitled to inspect the property (check contract) she doesn't have to tell you anything about her money situation or how she intends to cover the rent but once you are there if you ask in a sympathetic way she might open up and tell you.

I think that is exactly what has happened. They have always been good tenants and have taken good care of the property in reports by the managing agents so there is no issue there. I could even lower the rent a little to help however, she has to start communicating in some way.

Obviously I knew the address so I can write an old fashioned letter. I don't know if she has email - I think the managing agents text her or call her normally. I can look to do that on my return.

Non-complex probate can still take about 8-9 months or more, and it takes constant nagging of solicitors, accountants to move things forward. If she can't function at the moment, it will take longer. She cannot feasibly stay completely rent free for all that time - I would take partial payments until it is all sorted but we need to have that discussion and for that to happen she needs to be in conversation with the managing agents at the very least.

Let me see what the agents come back with from their meeting with the solicitor. I am sure I am opening myself up from another troll slating if I decide to intervene and halt their legal proceedings by a month but if in that month she refuses to let them know the score, then I can't see any other option but to let legal proceedings continue in the event of a third default. I sincerely hope she reaches out before then.

I have emailed them to confirm that in the event of the death of tenant, exactly where do we stand under the various sections for the succession before they then proceed with legal proceedings for non-payment. I will also ask them if they have a precedent for staggered payments under these circumstances. They must have had this happen before.

Hurdler

Pixie5740 wrote: »

Pick your toys up off the floor and go back and read #55. I take you have established if there was a joint tenancy and/or the tenancy is a statutory periodic AST if you now know the legal position.

When you can engage in a civil manner then I will be happy to engage further with you with specific information.

Pixie5740

Do you see how I didn't use a question mark in my previous post? It's because I wasn't asking you a question.

iammumtoone

Hurdler wrote: »

however, she has to start communicating in some way.

I appreciate its difficult as she owes you money and you don't know where you stand but in her defense she did communicate to say she had made an appointment with the council. She will have no more information to communicate until after the outcome of that meeting. She may be doing things like trying to ask friends etc if she can borrow money but there would be no point in communicating this unless it becomes definite. You can't be expected to know everything she is doing just that she is trying to resolve this (which by the communication she has given, she is).


I hope you can sort something, you sound like a good person and so does your tenant, in those situations solutions can normally be found.