Husband of tenants died, wife was given time to pay - now she is refusing to communicate

Hurdler

Pixie5740 wrote: »

If she's not a tenant how can she default on the rent?

The tenant dying doesn't end the tenancy so you can't go kicking anyone out. I'm also not sure where you're getting that notice can be served after a tenant is 1 month in arrears.

Perhaps it is best for all concerned if you get out the landlord business if after letting several properties you still don't know how a tenancy can be legally ended.

22 November (for Dec) missed - paid around 19 Dec
22 December (for Jan) missed - as yet unpaid
22 January (for Feb) in danger of being two months in arrears.

I suspect that is why they have a meeting with the solicitor because the tenancy agreement was pretty clear in when and how they would proceed in the event of non-payment.

I don't have an electronic copy with me to check if they both signed, and (perhaps rashly) assume that the management agents are aware of the legal implications of having her pay rent that should have been dealt with by his estate. Maybe that's why they are covering their behinds with the solicitors. Again expect an answer to a long email on Monday/Tuesday.

They were assured by him when he was hospitalised that he had the means to cover the rent with his business income, and insurance in place to cover the rent should the worse happen. They assured me it was all covered and there was no need to take any action last year to get new tenants in. I took them at their word because they have a relationship with the tenants. My bad. But I am not sure what else could have practicably been done in this situation? I specifically asked if I should be concerned they would not be able to cover the rent, he assured me it was not a problem based on HIS conversation with the tenant. What more could/should have been done in your opinion?

I have gone back to the managing agents to ask for a lot of clarification since things seem to have dissolved into chaos from a position of stability. I really don't know what more I could have done under the proceedings other than selling the property when I legally inherited it. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but I am sure you have the exact answers for what to do when a tenant dies - so please instead of telling me how awful I am as a LANDLADY (yes by all means vilify me for using the wrong gender in earlier posts), share in detail the steps you took which would be so much more helpful.

-taff

She may be going to see the council to see if they can house her.

[Deleted User]

It sounds like your tenant is dealing with a lot of uncertainties. She has just been bereaved, she may not know whether she is coming or going. She may have taken your advice as to where to turn for advice, she may not (she may be totally overwhelmed and hiding her head in the sand, she may have asked about benefits and waiting for it all to be sorted out, not certain what she is going to get, she is probably uncertain about what is going to happen re probate).

Having been in a similar situation, she may not want to talk until she knows what IS going to happen, and its not the managing agents nor your fault, you may be asking questions she doesn't have positive answers to as yet. So she may be playing for time. Not wanting to say right now I have no money, I didn't deal with the bank right etc, etc but I am doing this this and this with no idea what's going to happen. I promised you Rent in January, I thought I would be able to pay it but I couldn't, so now I don't want to say anything til I know its in the bank.

I also realise this is bringing bad memories back for you, hence the reaction to some of the posts. Just ignore the unhelpful ones. Don't let them touch you. Some people are on here to make themselves feel better by 'scoring points' and criticising. Then you react and sound like a child lol. Don't play that game. Just ignore.

Both parties are in a difficult situation and there may be no 'right answers' in the three months you need them. It is unlikely that the tenant's wife has changed suddenly from a good tenant to a bad tenant, she probably just isn't coping very well. But you need to pay your bills. However, you do need to make sure you aren't breaking rules by going to see her unnanounced.

The LA should have copies of the last tenancy agreement, why haven't they copied it to you? That should have happened a couple of months ago. They may not be doing you many favours here. Then you'd know if she is a tenant or not. At this point I'd be concentrating on getting paperwork together, and getting legal advice on your options. Don't rely on the LA who may also be in protective mode.

You could join a LL's association/forum with a bullet point list of what you need to know and see if they will help.

I am sure you are aware, but just in case, it will cost £500 at least to evict her if you need to. The LL has to pay the court costs initially and then the court makes an order that the tenant needs to pay them, but this is afterwards and you may not see the costs if the tenant is stuck for money as seems likely.

Pixie5740

I'm not saying that you're an awful person just that if you're going to continue being a landlord you need to educate yourself. It's all well and good to say that you're using a letting agent but ultimately the buck stops with you, the tenant has a contract with you not the letting agent. Furthermore, if you don't know the ins and outs of being a landlord how do you know how to choose a decent letting agent? Do take the time to read G_M's guide at the top of the board.

The legal side of how to deal with a tenancy depends very much on who was the original tenant and what type of tenancy is in place. Without knowing that no one can advise you just like no one can tell you why a woman they've never met is going to the council.

If it's a joint tenancy then the living tenant will acquire the deceased tenant's share by the right of survivorship.

If the husband was the sole tenant then what happens depends on whether the tenancy is in a fixed term or a statutory periodic tenancy. I note you say the tenancy originally began in October 2015 and that you didn't want to increase the rent annually so it might be a periodic tenancy but then again many letting agencies like to get tenants to sign new agreements every 6 or 12 months so they can charge fees.

Red-Squirrel_2

Hurdler wrote: »

I have rented places out before so I do know and have always used managing agents to be on hand to actually manage the property and situation. However in the last few months my OWN circs have changed, certainly wasn't planned but these things happen in life. It isn't anyone's fault why these things hit people in life, but at the end of the day it is unfortunate that it has happened at this time.

I have reached out to her personally and provided information I thought she would find helpful in these circumstances - I see now from feedback that even THIS was wrong. Just thought it would help.

I wanted to show compassion and be fair, and indeed one of my friends pointed out she was lucky I was not a professional landlord. However, thanks to you and Red-Squirrel I can see that this was a massive mistake on my part. I needed to behave like a professional landlord and not as someone with any compassion whatsoever.

You two are absolutely right - As my circumstances just now dictate that this is not the right time to be renting a property, I will indeed serve the eviction notice as soon as she defaults which is in two days time. There is absolutely no reward for wanting to do the right thing when you are running a business.

Funny... all I asked was... did anyone know what the council would be able to do to help someone in her circumstances. Guess it is a good job I told her about Citizens' advice, social services, and for good measure I'll get the managing agent to let her know about this group as a forum for her to get help.

...
...
...

Am I going to do all of that and kick a widow out... no of course I am not.
Is that a good business decision? Hell no. But at least I will be able to sleep at night.
Will I sell the flat after the leeway granted? I think that might prove to be inevitable.

What happened to the 22nd Feb?

Don't even think about trying to blame posters on here for the fact that you went into business without researching fully.

Norman_Castle

Red-Squirrel wrote: »

What happened to the 22nd Feb?

Don't even think about trying to blame posters on here for the fact that you went into business without researching fully.

The op wants help and advice, not the bickering match you seem intent on having.

Red-Squirrel_2

Norman_Castle wrote: »

The op wants help and advice, not the bickering match you seem intent on having.

I tried to give advice, apparently that resulting in me getting the blame for a widow getting evicted. :cool:

brianposter

Pixie5740 wrote: »

Perhaps it is best for all concerned if you get out the landlord business if after letting several properties you still don't know how a tenancy can be legally ended.

Never knowing how a tenancy can be legally ended is surely a characteristic of a good and successful landlord. It is only when the landlord gets things wrong that they need to know about the legalities of termination.

Tiglet2

Regarding the account being frozen: This is exactly what happens once you inform the bank that the account holder has passed away and have provided the Death Certificate. The account was in his sole name. If the account had been in joint names, then she would have still had access to the account. Unfortunately, now the account has been frozen, the funds will not be accessible until probate has been granted. Any direct debits will have to be transferred to her own account whether or not she has the means to pay them.

This happened to me. My husband died, his sole account (from which all direct debits were held) was frozen and it took 4 months for me to obtain probate. At no point did the bank enquire how I was to manage the many bills. In the meantime, I had to manage on savings and a part time job until the Grant of Probate allowed me to have access to monies held in the bank account and obtain insurance policies.

If your tenant does not have an adequate savings cushion or a job to pay the bills, then I'm not sure what she can do, other than borrow money from friends and family. While this is not your problem per se, since you employ a letting agent to manage the let, I would be inclined to leave them to deal with this and perhaps you could take out your frustrations on them rather than the tenant. Unfortunately, in situations like this, there is no quick solution. There will be a process to follow and no amount of badgering will make it happen any quicker. Best to think of a plan of how you will manage financially if the process takes longer than you ideally want.

brianposter

Hurdler wrote: »

What is the issue is what more can I feasibly do if I can't physically meet her to see what the issue is. I have to rely on the managing agents.

Of course you should go round and see the lady. If she wont answer the telephone go round and put a note under the door. Leaving things to agents may never get to the root of the problem.
However do note that you may not come across as you would like to, and that in this case your "helpful" advice may have been misinterpreted.