Husband of tenants died, wife was given time to pay - now she is refusing to communicate

Hurdler

Tricky one this. I rent out my late mother's bungelow and it was rented to the nephew of her neighbour. He was diagnosed with lung cancer, which was successfully treated, but then had a brain tumour to which he was responding well to treatment before declining rapidly and passing away before Christmas.

In September, he assured the management agency that his marquee business back in Devon was still his main source of income and that his insurance would cover rent.

As he passed away a few days before the December rent was due, the managing agents saw the widow, informed me that she had his bank account frozen - thing is... that is where the rent was coming from!

I told them to give her three months to catch up because his funeral was going to be three days before the second month's arrears came due, and we couldn't serve a newly made widow an eviction notice three days before Christmas. They had never missed rent before.

Then ... she paid the first month due, and was reminded that she was due the next in three days but she decided to return home. Since she has returned in the New Year, she is no longer communicating with the managing agent (having previously told him "you know me, you knew us, I will pay you, don't worry once everything is sorted"

He has learned she is going to the Council on Monday but I am confused - what can they do?

Either way she is going to now actually be a full month in arrears from the 22nd January.

I believe that is she misses that full month then legally I can have the management agent serve notice and that at least will mean getting rent from the insurance. The same is true if I decided to serve notice.

Any ideas as to what the council getting involved means?

lisyloo

Only guessing, but perhaps she is asking the council to house her.
If this is the case they will advise her not to make herself intentionally homeless I.e. you have to evict her.

Only a guess though.

silvercar

Maybe she is going to the council to claim housing benefit.

Pixie5740

Hurdler wrote: »

Tricky one this. I rent out my late mother's bungelow and it was rented to the nephew of her neighbour. He was diagnosed with lung cancer, which was successfully treated, but then had a brain tumour to which he was responding well to treatment before declining rapidly and passing away before Christmas.

In September, he assured the management agency that his marquee business back in Devon was still his main source of income and that his insurance would cover rent.

As he passed away a few days before the December rent was due, the managing agents saw the widow, informed me that she had his bank account frozen - thing is... that is where the rent was coming from!

I told them to give her three months to catch up because his funeral was going to be three days before the second month's arrears came due, and we couldn't serve a newly made widow an eviction notice three days before Christmas. They had never missed rent before.

Then ... she paid the first month due, and was reminded that she was due the next in three days but she decided to return home to Denmark. Since she has returned in the New Year, she is no longer communicating with the managing agent (having previously told him "you know me, you knew us, I will pay you, don't worry once everything is sorted"

He has learned she is going to the Council on Monday but I am confused - what can they do?

Either way she is going to now actually be a full month in arrears from the 22nd January.

I believe that is she misses that full month then legally I can have the management agent serve notice and that at least will mean getting rent from the insurance. The same is true if I decided to serve notice.

Any ideas as to what the council getting involved means?

Was she originally a tenant or just her husband?

You are able to issue a Section 8 when the tenant is 1p in arrears. Read the Tenancies in England/Wales sticky yo find out how a tenancy can be legally ended.

Blackpool_Saver

It depends what they mean by council, it could be to sort out council tax, it could be to get help with the rent/council tax, it could be for advice for rehousing. Why don't you write a nice kind letter to her asking/suggesting she contact the council for rent help if she needs it, and that you would like to work with her for the benefit of the both of you, I suggest you do it and not the agents.

Hurdler

We actually did when the husband died. We advised she contacted citizens advice and (if she was of pensionable age) contact Age UK to get help to sort out paperwork. We did also suggest she find out what benefits she was entitled to as a sudden widow.
So yeah - this could be her catching up with that as he died at the end of November, the funeral was just before Christmas and then she returned to Denmark (where she is from) for Christmas and New Year.

She was obviously distressed but at the time was telling the Managing Agent that she was keen to pay/catch up as soon as possible, and indeed she got the November payment in before she went a full month in arrears.

What confuses me - she had the presence of mind to go to the bank who froze his account, but seemingly did not check where her bills were being paid from! She went to the bank and had them release the rent she owed initially...

The managing agents are seeing their solicitors, so I think they are preparing themselves to serve notice - I have landlords' insurance (as do they) so as I understand it once that notice is served by reason of non-payment (and now non-communication) then the MA's insurance also kicks in and they will be able to pay me rent owed in arrears through their insurance.

It does worry me she has gone from assuring the MAs that she wants to catch up to no longer communicating with them at all, and I am working in Australia until next week... so not easy to chase this down - I was just concerned I hadn't heard from them since before I flew out...

I guess I will find out where I stand on Monday after she has seen the council. Unfortunately though the MAs are going to their solicitors on the same day... bit messy!

HampshireH

You havent advised if she was a tenant?
If not then she doesnt owe you her husbands debt. But do you intend to offer her a tenancy?

You pay the managing agent. They work for you. You are in control of when they apply to court etc.

The poor woman has just gone through a major life event is probably grieving and is now threatened with losing a home which she may or may not even be a formal tenant at.

Thafs life changing and councila dont just fit you in. Perhaps this was her 1st chance of an appt

Not saying not paying rent is right but you havent clarified whether she actually owes it

Hurdler

Pixie5740 wrote: »

Was she originally a tenant or just her husband?

You are able to issue a Section 8 when the tenant is 1p in arrears. Read the Tenancies in England/Wales sticky yo find out how a tenancy can be legally ended.

That is a good question - the details were all in his name (and it was his account that the rent came from) which is why when they froze his account suddenly she found herself with no money to pay the rent - but surely she has to live too - eat, buy groceries but not sure if she had her own income - I get the feeling from the managing agent that she didn't work.

supa34

It depends on husband's will as to who gets all the money in the bank. So until his will isn't executed she can't have access to his account. She probably just needs time for all that to sort out. Same with the business, it will change hands to other business partners or siblings etc. Best is to go down and talk to her. Is she is going to council for housing it's best to work with her as going down the legal route will just mean more costs.

G_M

* When he died his bank acount gets frozen- there is no choice in this.

* if she is not a (joint) tenant, you need to find out who is/are the Executer (or Administrator) of his Estate. The Estate is now your tenant, and it is the Executer/Administrator who owes you rent. This may or may not be her.

* A certain leeway seems appropriate. She paid the first month once she'd sorted out initial money, and now says she'll pay subsequent months. Maybe she will or won't, but even if not it seem both compassionate and sensible not to take premature action.

* as others said, she may be sorting out income with the council to help with the rent(Housing Benefit etc). Or reducing her council tax (single person discount) to free up cash. Or requesting re-housing. Until you know, don't make assumptions.

* it is definately a tea & cake scenario.

Hurdler

HampshireH wrote: »

You havent advised if she was a tenant?
If not then she doesnt owe you her husbands debt. But do you intend to offer her a tenancy?

You pay the managing agent. They work for you. You are in control of when they apply to court etc.

The poor woman has just gone through a major life event is probably grieving and is now threatened with losing a home which she may or may not even be a formal tenant at.

Thafs life changing and councila dont just fit you in. Perhaps this was her 1st chance of an appt

Not saying not paying rent is right but you havent clarified whether she actually owes it

Just replied to something similar - It looks as though everything was in her husband's name - I think they (he) was towards the end of his working life so I suppose that doesn't surprise me that he was on all the paperwork. It does seem strange the bank just froze what looks like her only source of income - I remember when my father died the first thing they asked my mother was where her bills were paid from for council tax, utilities etc.

When my late mother died, I assured them both that the tenancy would continue, and I have said before I told the managing agents to allow her until the 22 February to sort out the long, tedious probate process which they assured me was more than fair under the circumstances. I know that probate can/will take months and she will not be able to live there rent free during all that time - it just is not financially possible. I could have cancelled the tenancy there and then and pulled the rug out from under them (they were very concerned about that at the time). I did not. So I am prepared to give her some leeway, but it now really concerns me that she has stopped communicating with them and as you rightly say - they are engaged to deal with this as I live two hours drive away.

I'll see what the score is on Monday and see if they have a better idea of why she is going to the council. Like I said before - I suggested all the courses of action I could think of for someone with no immediate family - Citizen's Advice, Bank bereavement officers, identify what benefits she is entitled to as a widow, what she needs to do for probate etc ... I can't think of much more to suggest to her.