Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

buglawton

SouthLondonUser wrote: »

It would be very interesting to understand what the Brexiters on this forum thought of the NHS bus. Did they not see through the lie? Did they know it was a lie, but said nothing because it was in their interest that more people voted Leave, even if based on lies? Or what?

I don't think you are really interested. FWIW it took the journalists about 5 minutes to analyse the figures as misleading, which made zero difference to my opinion or vote. There were publicly seekers on both sides of the debate.

I consider the bus a one-off gaffe that misfired.

Project Fear meanwhile, was a continuous effort to mislead, it continues today and is often supported by supposedly respectable holders of office. They should know better.

SouthLondonUser

I get it that not every Brexiter voted to leave because of the bus thing. But I also seem to remember that no Brexiter stood up and said: the bus thing is fake news, but the reasons to vote leave are x, y and z.

Tromking, did you believe the bus thing? Do you do now? What is your opinion of people who believe blatant lies which are very easy to debunk? Does your answer depend on whether these gullible people share some of your political views?

SouthLondonUser

Buglawton, interesting criteria you apply.
So the bus was a gaffe. Can you admit it was a lie? Fake news? Intentionally misleading? Yes or no?

However, of course, the other side misleads. Yes, of course.

The key error of the remain campaign was to focus on the negatives and not on the positives. Coming up with economic forecasts as if they were gospel was very stupid. I cannot however think of many intentional and blatant lies said by remainers. Care to bring up some? I'm quite sure there may have been, and if so I have no issue admitting it, but not on a scale even remotely comparable to what the Leave campaign did.

Tromking

SouthLondonUser wrote: »

Tromking, did you believe the bus thing? Do you do now? What is your opinion of people who believe blatant lies which are very easy to debunk? Does your answer depend on whether these gullible people share some of your political views?

As I said earlier I can’t remember too much about the ‘bus’ but I do remember the hoo-ha around the claims it made.
I’m no more bothered about this ‘lie’ than any other lie I’ve been told by a politician. I was once told by a shadow Home Secretary that my full trade union rights would be restored on election of a nu-Labour Government, it never happened. You suck it up and remember it next time you’re at the ballot box.

gfplux

As a remainer I have in the past acknowledged that remain ran a poor campaign.
Just as Hilary Clinton thought that facts would triumph lies.

Remain also misunderstood the mood of the country as did Clinton.
Remain talking of Bankers losing their jobs was the equivalent of Clinton telling women that they could get a college degree when they hardly had money to feed their family.

While that is water under the bridge both events may have changed political campaigning in their respective countries for ever.

What is also irrelevant in the context of Brexit is discussions about the merits or otherwise of the EU however well argued they are (thank you SouthLondonUser)
As a remainer I except that Britain is leaving the EU and energy needs directing at minimising the harm to both sides during the withdrawal.
I do have difficulty in understanding Brexiters who are against the “deal”.
Some appear prepared to sacrifice their country on the anvil of a no deal.
Do they think that after a no deal exit the trade talks with the EU will go well? Don’t they know that out of the glare of publicity civil servants from both sides have been working hard on the trade deal that could mean the April start of trade talks would be two years further forward than expected.

Moe_The_Bartender

Herzlos wrote: »

Recent polling showed something like half of brexiteers still believed the bus.

Have you got a link to that or are you making stuff up again?

SouthLondonUser

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/vote-leave-brexit-lies-eu-pay-money-remain-poll-boris-johnson-a8603646.html

Polla must be taken with truckloads of salt, regardless of whether they support your views or not, but, since you asked, here is one such poll.

fatbeetle

Ah the Indy, a paper so good it went bust.

A survey of 2,200 people?!?!? That's hardy going to be representative is it?

SouthLondonUser

The survey was not done by the Indy.
Yes, the sample is very small, which is why I didn't mention it initially, and why I said surveys must always be taken with a truckload of salt.

cogito

SouthLondonUser wrote: »

The survey was not done by the Indy.
Yes, the sample is very small, which is why I didn't mention it initially, and why I said surveys must always be taken with a truckload of salt.

And 42% is not half.