Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

Herzlos

ukcarper wrote: »

Although I voted remain and believe immigration is beneficial I get annoy when people brand leave voters racist as I know many people who voted brexit and they are neither racist or far right.

Just as well no-one has branded leave voters as racist then, just the racist ones. Even you must be able to admit that the racists voted for Leave for racist reasons?


I'm curious as to which claims from Remainers you think weren't made before the referendum vote? We definitely mentioned that immigration is good, the benefits of the EU and the pitfalls of trying to leave. All were shot down as Project Fear. Brexit has gone roughly as predicted (though it's been far worse in terms of drama/incompetence than most of us thought possible). The only people who seem to be surprised by it are the Brexiteers.

Herzlos

ukcarper wrote: »

I'd like to see some stats on that especially the definition of age. It's not old people chanting racist comments at football matches.

No but it's the old people that seem most comfortable using racist language. Anecdotal, but the bulk of all of the people I know with racist views are 60+.

ukcarper wrote: »

Many people believe the problems they are facing are caused by immigrants which in most cases they are not. Instead of calling them racist you should explain that they aren't and if possible address their concerns.

That's been tried for years, they aren't interested.

Uncontrolled immigration can cause problems and calling everybody who are concerned about it racist is counter productive.

Just as well that hasn't been happening. There's been plenty of conversation about uncontrolled immigration that hasn't resulted in claims of racism, but there have been plenty with hints of racism that have been called out.

ukcarper

Herzlos wrote: »

Just as well no-one has branded leave voters as racist then, just the racist ones. Even you must be able to admit that the racists voted for Leave for racist reasons?

I suspect many racists did voted leave probably not all of them. Plenty of people are accusing people concerned about immigration as being racist.

phillw

ukcarper wrote: »

Many people believe the problems they are facing are caused by immigrants which in most cases they are not.

Yes, which is a xenophobic reaction. Explaining to them that it isn't immigrants doesn't work, because they don't believe it because "foreigners".

ukcarper wrote: »

Plenty of people are accusing people concerned about immigration as being racist.

If it's not xenophobia, then what is it that drives their irrational fear of immigration?

The facts were there for them, they chose to decide it was immigrants that were the problem.

We don't have uncontrolled immigration. There are some controls that we have chosen not to enforce, but we do enforce other controls.

ukcarper

phillw wrote: »

Yes, which is a xenophobic reaction. Explaining to them that it isn't immigrants doesn't work, because they don't believe it because "foreigners".



If it's not xenophobia, then what is it that drives their irrational fear of immigration?

The facts were there for them, they chose to decide it was immigrants that were the problem.

We don't have uncontrolled immigration. There are some controls that we have chosen not to enforce, but we do enforce other controls.

There you are doing it again. We have had uncontrolled immigration from EU OK there might be rules we could implement but various governments have not chosen to implement them.

Arklight

ukcarper wrote: »

I'd like to see some stats on that especially the definition of age. It's not old people chanting racist comments at football matches.

Racism is less accepted now than it was in the 70s and 80s. At least it was before Brexit. People from that era are more likely to hold views from that era.

To be fair, plenty of people from that era fought against it. I just don't think many of them voted for Brexit now though...

phillw

gfplux wrote: »

However as a firm Brexit party I assume they would at the same time be campaigning for Brexit to win the referendum.

They aren't a firm brexit party.

I actually think it would be much more interesting to see what Labour would do if they got in power. It'll be much better than conservatives trying to steamroller a bad deal through.

ukcarper wrote: »

There you are doing it again. We have had uncontrolled immigration from EU OK there might be rules we could implement but various governments have not chosen to implement them.

There I go, doing it again, educating you.

We don't have uncontrolled immigration from EU. We have sent EU citizens back for committing crimes. That is a control, therefore it's not uncontrolled.

ukcarper

Arklight wrote: »

Racism is less accepted now than it was in the 70s and 80s. At least it was before Brexit. People from that era are more likely to hold views from that era.

To be fair, plenty of people from that era fought against it. I just don't think many of them voted for Brexit now though...

I think one of the things that is reduced racism is integration once you get to know people of different races you realise under the skin they are the same as you.

phillw

ukcarper wrote: »

I think one of the things that is reduced racism is integration once you get to know people of different races you realise under the skin they are the same as you.

Which is why the leave vote was strongest in areas that were less affected by immigration.

I live in an area with a reasonable number of immigrants, but the white british don't want to integrate with the foreigners. The immigrants are keeping the local businesses running, but as the leavers say the financial hit is a small price to pay. The really xenophobic won't regret it even when it inevitably happens.

ukcarper

phillw wrote: »

They aren't a firm brexit party.

I actually think it would be much more interesting to see what Labour would do if they got in power. It'll be much better than conservatives trying to steamroller a bad deal through.



There I go, doing it again, educating you.

We don't have uncontrolled immigration from EU. We have sent EU citizens back for committing crimes. That is a control, therefore it's not uncontrolled.

Sending convicted criminals back is not controlled immigration.