Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

ukcarper

Herzlos wrote: »

It sounds more like a racist justifying being a racist but it's sort of a real phenomenon.


Often, young impressionable males on the wrong parts of the internet hear about political correctness gone mad and that the right wing is the sane place for people. They then go an parrot their racist jokes and get shut down over it - thus proving the PC gone mad nonsense which then drives them to the right.


However, calling someone on racist behaviour usually doesn't drive them further right. Especially when it's usually backed up with something beyond "that's just offensive".

Are you calling me a racist if so I'd like an apology.

Racism should be called out and if someone really is racist it won't effect them, but ignoring the problems immigration brings and branding any body mentioning them A racist does give the far right ammunition.

Thrugelmir

borntobefree wrote: »

Vote Lib Dem - for a bigger economy from day one, the extra £50 billion in 5 years gained used for public services,

So easy to run an economy. Unfortunately words are cheap. Delivering is far more of a challenge.

ukcarper

Sailtheworld wrote: »

If someone called me a racist I'd either say no I'm not or let it go over my head.

I doubt I'd suddenly start encouraging the far right. This is like the silliness of people voting brexit because a remainer once looked down their nose at them.

You are missing or ignoring the point.

People voted for brexit for perceived problems, you can either address those problems or take the time to discuss the problems and make the point that the problems may not be caused by what they think. A much better approach in my view than just branding people racists.

Herzlos

ukcarper wrote: »

If people had discussed problems and addressed some of the issues before referendum then we might not in the position we are now in.

We did. There isn't any broad argument* from Remain that wasn't made before the referendum and written off as project fear. You chose to ignore it then and you'll choose to ignore it now.




*We knew it was going to be a mess, but not that Boris would make this much of a mess.

ukcarper wrote: »

Are you calling me a racist if so I'd like an apology.

Me? No I wasn't, but it sounds like I've hit a nerve. Do you feel racist?

Racism should be called out and if someone really is racist it won't effect them, but ignoring problems immigration and branding any body mentioning them A racist does give the far right ammunition.

The problem hasn't been ignored, it'd been discussed to death. Immigration is good for the economy, they generate more economic value than they cost, non-productive migrants could be sent home under existing EU rules.



The right seems to think the left is shutting them down for pointing to things done by foreigners because complaining about foreigners is automatically racist. But it's missing the point. The right only focuses on things done by foreigners but ignores the same behaviour coming from whites, like the child sex abuse stuff. Even though several UKIP members have been jailed for the same thing. Tommy Robinson nearly blew a court case with brown suspects completely ignored the white ones.



If the right can talk about the issues without being racist, the left is happy to talk about the issues.

ukcarper

Herzlos wrote: »

We did. There isn't any broad argument* from Remain that wasn't made before the referendum and written off as project fear. You chose to ignore it then and you'll choose to ignore it now.

it wasn't especially before referendum was called

*We knew it was going to be a mess, but not that Boris would make this much of a mess.

yes it's a mess but not all of Boris's doing


Me? No I wasn't, but it sounds like I've hit a nerve. Do you feel racist?



no I don't feel racist having work all my life in a very multicultural environment I perhaps have had more experience than you of problems people can face.

The problem hasn't been ignored, it'd been discussed to death. Immigration is good for the economy, they generate more economic value than they cost, non-productive migrants could be sent home under existing EU rules.

its only good for economy if people feel benefit which in many areas they don't

The right seems to think the left is shutting them down for pointing to things done by foreigners because complaining about foreigners is automatically racist. But it's missing the point. The right only focuses on things done by foreigners but ignores the same behaviour coming from whites, like the child sex abuse stuff. Even though several UKIP members have been jailed for the same thing. Tommy Robinson nearly blew a court case with brown suspects completely ignored the white ones.

yes that is the problem with far right

If the right can talk about the issues without being racist, the left is happy to talk about the issues.

Comments in red

Although I voted remain and believe immigration is beneficial I get annoy when people brand leave voters racist as I know many people who voted brexit and they are neither racist or far right.

Dee_Best

phillw wrote: »

Which is mostly the old white british who don't like being seen by a foreign doctor.

And mostly self inflicted through ignorance/arrogance.

Rather than leaving the EU to save the NHS, they should cut down on their beer, fags, cakes & biscuits. But some people feel better blaming foreigners.

ukcarper is right to suggest that being a nasty post.


You seem to forget that it's your "old white British" that have welcomed immigrants for decades, from the Windrush Generation and other Commonwealth migrants right up until recent times.

By 1971 over 3 million immigrants had settled in the UK, mostly West Indians and Asians; by the 2011 Census people of Indian origin were the largest single immigrant source in the UK.
For many decades now your chance of seeing a "foreign doctor" here in the UK have been about equal to that of seeing a white British doctor.
On a hospital ward setting you have a slim chance of being seen by a white British trainee/junior doctor.
Any user of the NHS will be well aware of that.

So show me statistics suggesting that it "is mostly the old white british who don't like being seen by a foreign doctor."[sic]
I suspect that you can't, because all you're doing is trying to imply something which in reality does not exist so it's no wonder your post was described as offensive.

As for your "beer, fags, cakes & biscuits" suggestion it only proves just how severely restricted your knowledge really is.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/health-fitness/body/fit-flirty-50-older-people-exercising-millennials/

A 60-year-old English male has a life expectancy of 84 compared to a newborn English male who has a life expectancy of 80.
If it is "beer, fags, cakes & biscuits" giving the 60-yr-old an extra four years on this earth, more of us should be doing the same.
That's some "self-infliction"; maybe the NHS should be promoting that lifestyle.
:rotfl:

But some people feel better blaming foreigners.

The only person suggesting the blaming of foreigners in recent posts is you.
I suspect that most people are similar to myself in that, if I need to seek medical advice, I couldn't care less what colour skin or even what planet the medic is from just as long as they are qualified and can provide relief.

Sailtheworld

ukcarper wrote: »

People voted for brexit for perceived problems, you can either address those problems or take the time to discuss the problems and make the point that the problems may not be caused by what they think. A much better approach in my view than just branding people racists.

How do you discuss the problem of people being racists? Point out their perceived problems may not be caused by what they think?

They'll just keep talking in the usual code and you'll never convince them they're not part of a master race but I wish you luck.

As soon as you hear about uncontrolled immigration and being a patriot you're wasting your time.

ukcarper

Sailtheworld wrote: »

How do you discuss the problem of people being racists? Point out their perceived problems may not be caused by what they think?

They'll just keep talking in the usual code and you'll never convince them they're not part of a master race but I wish you luck.

As soon as you hear about uncontrolled immigration and being a patriot you're wasting your time.

Many people believe the problems they are facing are caused by immigrants which in most cases they are not. Instead of calling them racist you should explain that they aren't and if possible address their concerns.

Uncontrolled immigration can cause problems and calling everybody who are concerned about it racist is counter productive.

Sailtheworld

Dee_Best wrote: »

You seem to forget that it's your "old white British" that have welcomed immigrants for decades, from the Windrush Generation and other Commonwealth migrants right up until recent times.

I think welcomed might be a stretch.

Dee_Best wrote: »

So show me statistics suggesting that it "is mostly the old white british who don't like being seen by a foreign doctor."[sic]

There are plenty of stats to show older people are more racist so is it so difficult to infer they would prefer to see a white doctor?

People lie when asked questions (they tend to give the answer they think shows them in the best light). That's why, when asked, there are lots of people willing to pay extra tax for better public services and very few loud and proud racists.

ukcarper

Sailtheworld wrote: »

I think welcomed might be a stretch.



There are plenty of stats to show older people are more racist so is it so difficult to infer they would prefer to see a white doctor?

People lie when asked questions (they tend to give the answer they think shows them in the best light). That's why, when asked, there are lots of people willing to pay extra tax for better public services and very few loud and proud racists.

I'd like to see some stats on that especially the definition of age. It's not old people chanting racist comments at football matches.