Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

lvader

Sailtheworld wrote: »

For it to be a problem requires you to buy into two conspiracy theories and not understand what a sovereign parliament is.

It was only a 'problem' because Johnson decided it provided the leverage required to get him into No. 10. Job done - no need to pretend anymore.

It's not a conspiracy issue, it's a legal issue, May couldn't even get a time limit on it.

SpiderLegs

Moby wrote: »

The fact that a duplicitous fraud has turned on his own doesn't make him less of a duplicitous fraud.

I guess then you think the DUP should have got their veto then.
Not very conducive to peace in NI but hey ho.

Funny though how throughout this whole process the least flexible and most uncompromising have been the arch remainer MPs, their band of merry followers and their new bedfellows the DUP.

Thrugelmir

SpiderLegs wrote: »

I guess then you think the DUP should have got their veto then.
Not very conducive to peace in NI but hey ho.

DUP aren't representative of NI as a whole nor did they sign up to the GFA.

The-Joker

Boris has only got as far as May did, it didn’t get through for her I don’t see why it will work for boris

lvader

The-Joker wrote: »

Boris has only got as far as May did, it didn’t get through for her I don’t see why it will work for boris

I don't think it matters, no deal would be fine as well.

Thrugelmir

The-Joker wrote: »

Boris has only got as far as May did, it didn’t get through for her I don’t see why it will work for boris

Time for a decision though. No more discussions.

Moby

SpiderLegs wrote: »

I guess then you think the DUP should have got their veto then.
Not very conducive to peace in NI but hey ho.

Funny though how throughout this whole process the least flexible and most uncompromising have been the arch remainer MPs, their band of merry followers and their new bedfellows the DUP.

You guessed wrong. Of course the DUP should have no veto any more than the rest of the country. I was simply pointing out that last year Johnson gave a speech in which he said there would never be a customs barrier in the Irish sea and now there will be one.
This sums it up really:-
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2019/oct/18/how-much-johnson-great-new-deal-actually-new


More than 95% of it is unchanged from May’s deal, with change mostly confined to NI. And since the NI proposals are ones that May and Johnson once agreed “no UK prime minister could accept” it isn’t clear to me why brexiteers are so eager to cheer Johnson on. It surely takes a high level of gullibility – or willing suspension of disbelief – to be so easily taken in by smoke and mirrors.

SpiderLegs

Moby wrote: »

You guessed wrong. Of course the DUP should have no veto any more than the rest of the country. I was simply pointing out that last year Johnson gave a speech in which he said there would never be a customs barrier in the Irish sea and now there will be one.
This sums it up really:-
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2019/oct/18/how-much-johnson-great-new-deal-actually-new

More than 95% of it is unchanged from May’s deal, with change mostly confined to NI. And since the NI proposals are ones that May and Johnson once agreed “no UK prime minister could accept” it isn’t clear to me why brexiteers are so eager to cheer Johnson on. It surely takes a high level of gullibility – or willing suspension of disbelief – to be so easily taken in by smoke and mirrors.

Maybe we are all just sick of naysayer remainers trying to block any attempt at moving the process forward?

Perhaps if said whingers had actually got a coherent plan that they themselves could agree on it might be a different story.
But it isn’t. None of them have a clue how to actually deliver any kind of brexit, so it’s just a case of repeated moaning at whatever anyone comes up with.

Thrugelmir

You guessed wrong. Of course the DUP should have no veto any more than the rest of the country. I was simply pointing out that last year Johnson gave a speech in which he said there would never be a customs barrier in the Irish sea and now there will be one.

There has to come a point at which you simply bypass the obstacle in the road. The DUP's concern is a united Ireland not a Brexit deal for everyone.

Herzlos

lvader wrote: »

There wasn’t any provision for unilateral withdrawal from the backstop like article 50. That was the problem.

Unilateral withdrawal of the backstop would defeat the point of the backstop!


I think we need to step it back a bit.


EU: We don't want a hard border
UK: We won't need one
EU: How?
UK: We'll have a system in place
EU: What system?
UK: We don't know yet
EU: Well, we want you to keep regulatory alignment until you do (backstop)
UK: OK
<later>
UK: We want to drop the backstop
EU: Have you solved the border?
UK: No
EU: .....
UK: OK, we'll keep the backstop, but we want to be able to drop it unilaterally.
EU: Are you serious?




Unilaterally leaving an agreement to satisfy the other party that we can do something means that the other party has no faith we'll do the thing. Neither do we, because we can't, so we're latching onto the idea that it's bad because the EU will always refuse. If that were even the case, there'd be nothing stopping us just going to WTO at that point.