Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

setmefree2

Moby wrote: »

A new example of how demeaning it is to have a Prime Minister who is not across the detail and just doesn't understand the issues brexit raises!

The FT this morning reports on a chastening encounter over lunch between Johnson, Michel Barnier and Jean-Claude Juncker, which one official described as a “penny dropping” moment for the prime minister over what it really means to replace the Irish backstop.
According to an account of the meeting, the prime minister was told by his EU counterparts in no uncertain terms that the UK’s plan to replace the backstop by allowing Northern Ireland to stick to common EU rules on food and livestock (known as SPS) was not enough to prevent customs checks on the vast majority of goods that cross the Irish border.
At that point, a befuddled Johnson turned to David Frost, his chief negotiator, and Stephen Barclay, Brexit secretary, and said: “So you're telling me the SPS plan doesn’t solve the customs problem?”


Another example of the same crass idiocy from this morning in a speech at the European parliament by Nigel Farage. He says the only solution is a clean-break Brexit. Then the two sides can have a grown-up conversation about the future..........And he starts this 'grown-up' conversation by referring to the Prime Minister of Luxembourg as a 'pipsqueak'. Just when you think Farage couldn't get any lower he shows there are still depths for him to plummet........and of course he totally forgets that these are the very same people we will be negotiating with on our post brexit deal!


It's as if brexiteers are willing to burn the house down to get their brexit and they'll support any type of individual no matter their failings and inadequacy for the task so long as this individual is doing what they want!

Good post that.


Which is why you should vote Lib Dem and get Article 50 Revoked...stop the madness.

Zuzel

Moby wrote: »

I think some sources are more reliable than others and you use your judgement....you have to in this post truth age. Of course what Farage said this morning may also be a lie.....perhaps the EU employ sophisticated technology to put false words into peoples mouths when they give speeches at the EU parliament!

There's no need to be sarcastic, just as there's no need to question what Farage said.
Speeches in the European Parliament are on record and the whole parliament has heard him.
Even you have got to admit that is far more solid than "a reporter said an unnamed source overheard....", or are you now a believer in the anecdotal in which case prepare for a deluge.


Strange isn't it how remain types are offended by Farage's comments yet say nothing of Juncker's sarcastic "“This house is open and in action, and not prorogued,” start to the European Parliament day.
It's back to the usual stance from remainers; anti-Brexit is fine.
Pro Brexit isn't.

phillw

Zuzel wrote: »

Strange isn't it how remain types are offended by Farage's comments yet say nothing of Juncker's sarcastic "“This house is open and in action, and not prorogued,” start to the European Parliament day.
It's back to the usual stance from remainers; anti-Brexit is fine.
Pro Brexit isn't.

Please explain why you think his comment is sarcasm

sarcasm: "the use of irony to mock or convey contempt."

irony: "the expression of one's meaning by using language that normally signifies the opposite, typically for humorous or emphatic effect."

Are you saying EU parliament is actually not open, even though Juncker claims it is not?

I find Farage's lies and exagerations offensive.
Do you find Junckers truth offensive?

That may be why you find it difficult to understand why we have a different take on things.

In other news, the education of Boris Johnson continues

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/18/boris-johnson-surprised-by-level-of-irish-border-checks-brexit

Boris Johnson expressed surprise to his advisers during lunch with Jean-Claude Juncker as he was informed about the scale of checks still needed on the island of Ireland under his alternative plan for the Irish border, according to EU sources.

Of course the government tried to cover it up

Downing Street has described as “nonsense” a report in the Financial Times that Johnson turned to his chief negotiator, David Frost, and the Brexit secretary, Stephen Barclay, and said: “So you’re telling me the SPS plan doesn’t solve the customs problem?”

But senior EU sources speaking to the Guardian confirmed that Johnson had expressed surprise during the lunch at the complexity of the situation, and that it appeared to have been a “bit of a reality check to hear it from EU officials”.

Zuzel

Not one of these supposed "EU sources" will admit it was them?
In all probability it's mad-up filler on a quiet news day and nothing more.
Like so much of it nowadays.
Unless there's a move towards blindly accepting the anecdotal now?
"Nonsense" sums it up nicely, and it applies to a huge amount of what our media try to pass off as "news" nowadays.

Tammykitty

setmefree2 wrote: »

Good post that.


Which is why you should vote Lib Dem and get Article 50 Revoked...stop the madness.

And end democracy


Give the people a referendum and ignore the result.


Unless the lib dems get more votes than every other party put together - how can article 50 be revoked while keeping the pretense of democracy.


Lib Dems don't even stand in NI - so that's 1.3million people that can't for them!

Zuzel

phillw wrote: »

Please explain why you think his comment is sarcasm

sarcasm: "the use of irony to mock or convey contempt."

You did it yourself thanks.
:T
It's not like Juncker or indeed other EU officialdom don't have a history of treating Britain with sneering contempt either, is it?
They've done a better job of persuading the British people to leave the EU than any campaigning could ever do.

phillw

Zuzel wrote: »

Not one of these supposed "EU sources" will admit it was them?
In all probability it's mad-up filler on a quiet news day and nothing more.

How are you calculating that probability?

Newspapers keeping their sources secret is pretty common. Would you reject an anonymous source in a newspaper if it supported your opinion?

phillw

Zuzel wrote: »

You did it yourself thanks.
:T

You misunderstand. Please point out where he used "irony to mock or convey contempt."

Sarcasm is either:

irony to mock
irony to convey contempt.

mocking or conveying contempt without irony is not sarcasm

Zuzel wrote: »

It's not like Juncker or indeed other EU officialdom don't have a history of treating Britain with sneering contempt either, is it?

Please provide an example, I have never seen them sneer or act in contempt.

Tammykitty wrote: »

Lib Dems don't even stand in NI - so that's 1.3million people that can't for them!

I'm glad you're worried about their voice being heard. NI voted to remain, so they would support revoke.

Herzlos

So Johnson is being called on pretending to negotiate, after his latest proposal is essentially Mays but with the backstop crossed out. Junker (I think) has also been insisting that Johnsons backstop alternatives are provided in writing before they can be considered.


So what will Johnson do now - double down on it and keep playing to the UK audience, or will he pull his finger out and try negotiating?

phillw

Herzlos wrote: »

So what will Johnson do now - double down on it and keep playing to the UK audience, or will he pull his finger out and try negotiating?

Is that a rhetorical question?