Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

Tromking

gfplux wrote: »

This thread is about Brexit.
If Britain has done badly as a member of the EU why is it not in your list. Or is it you want Britain to leave the EU because it has done better than some other country’s.
Isn’t that a strange reason to leave.

Some much of the Remain case for staying is based on pragmatism, I don’t think peope like yourself will ever understand that for many Leave voters this was an aspirational thing, a desire to be better than we already are.

buglawton

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Reinforces my point. After all the UK is a net contributor to the coffers. There's plenty of deprivation that could be addressed directly in the UK with the funds.

The permanent flow of funds - effectively foreign aid - from countries that are biggest and on aggregate richest in the EU, to the poorer members, is all the proof you need to see that the EU is a political project.

Along with that permanent foreign aid, the youngest, most energetic and mobile part of the poorest EU members populations have been encouraged by FOM to migrate to the richer countries. Over the top of that we have the straitjacket of the Euro for most of the EU, preventing countries from managing their competitiveness individually.

It was doomed fail and is failing. There's a design deficit at the heart of the EU political project that the UK can't fix from the inside, we needed Brexit.

J_Nostin

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Italy was an unstable democracy with a basket case economy and a banana republic currency long before it joined the EU.

They've had what, 60 or 70 governments in the last 50 years?

EU membership isn't the cause of Italy's problems.

Greece was similar too. So why, we wonder, were they encouraged to join the EU when they didn't fully meet joining criteria? Surely it wasn't because the EU saw these as part of their plan of expansionism and moneymaking?

lytton

Because if they go to pot and drag the value of the euro down, at least it benefits euro exports for others. Depreciating the value of a currency has the occasional silver lining.

Thrugelmir

J_Nostin wrote: »

Greece was similar too. So why, we wonder, were they encouraged to join the EU when they didn't fully meet joining criteria? Surely it wasn't because the EU saw these as part of their plan of expansionism and moneymaking?

Furthermore why did Greece become the largest market in Europe for the Porsche Cayenne. With German Banks more than happy to provide finance for the buyers. Greece was exploited. National politics and big business are far too often interlinked. ( i.e. Brown\Blair and RBS\Goodwin).

buglawton

lytton wrote: »

Because if they go to pot and drag the value of the euro down, at least it benefits euro exports for others. Depreciating the value of a currency has the occasional silver lining.

And it's made Germany the biggest beneficiary with a 280BN Euro surplus in 2017 trailing only China.

fatbeetle

Arklight wrote: »

Pringle scoffing Brexit supporters are looking nervously at March and a no deal Brexit. Embargos of Findus Pancakes, A fortnight in Shagaluf to require the finances of a manor squire, and the 2-4-1 Brexit Pint offer at Spoons even looking unlikely to honour the voucher.

Oh dear Brexiters. Oh dear...

There you have it folks, the reason remain lost and continue to lose. They have nothing to offer but childish playground insults.

People like "Arklight" cannot enter into reasoned and reasonable debate, it's beyond them. So instead they just sling cheap jibes about in order to feel like they have some insight or ideals, such a sham, and so easily exposed.

Meanwhile back in the European socialist paradise..

Germany narrowly avoided falling into recession in the second half of last year as weaker exports dragged Europe’s largest economy to stalling point during the final three months of 2018.

The German economy recorded zero growth in the fourth quarter, managing to just avoid a technical recession after reporting a contraction of 0.2% in the third quarter amid a slump in industrial output.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/14/german-economy-just-avoids-recession-but-weaker-exports-take-toll

Something is going very wrong with the Italian economy, the Eurozone’s third-largest economy and the world’s third-largest sovereign bond market.

After the briefest and weakest of economic recoveries, the Italian economy has again succumbed to an economic recession for the third time in a decade. This risks further undermining Italian support for the euro, particularly considering that Italian living standards today remain below those enjoyed 20 years ago when Italy adopted the euro as its currency.

A further reason for concern is that ahead of this May’s European parliamentary elections, Italy’s populist government is becoming more radical in a manner that is hardly likely to revive flagging investor confidence in that country.

PARIS (Reuters) - France is expected to have first quarter economic growth of 0.4 percent, the Bank of France said in its monthly business survey on Monday, as the euro zone’s second-biggest economy grapples with the impact to business from anti-government protests.

First-quarter growth of 0.4 percent would represent a slight improvement from the fourth quarter of 2018, when the French economy grew by 0.3 percent.

Spain’s economy grew faster than those of France and Germany last year, at a 3 percent annual pace. Unemployment fell last month to 14.4 percent, the lowest in a decade and down from a staggering 27 percent in 2013.

The krona has declined nearly 4 per cent against Europe’s single currency since the end of 2018, one of the worst starts to any year for the Swedish currency. It was recently trading at SKr10.4751, having started the year at SKr10.1147.

“The outlook has clearly taken a turn for the worse,” said Jonas Goltermann of ING, who expects little change from the central bank this week. The krona’s depreciation, which he said is in contrast to expectations from the Riksbank of a gradual appreciation, “is even more remarkable given the bounceback in risky asset prices globally during January, which would typically be associated with a stronger krona”, he said.

These are all countries who pay more into, than they take out of,the EU scam. If their economies are failing to provide the largess that the EU spends, where then for the debtor countries? Let's not forget soon they will not have the UK cash cow.

AlanP_2

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Without the influx of expats one wonders what the Spanish economy would be like now. Still struggling in broad terms. So much of Europe depends on tourism.

Or to rephrase it slightly:

Without the influx of immigrants one wonders what the Spanish economy would be like now.

Arklight

Tromking wrote: »

Poor old Arky, how he’d love to cite a period in our not too distant past where fascists held sway in the U.K. and because of that our continued EU membership is a vital firewall against a return to our latent fascist and nationalistic tendencies.
Of course if he were, German, Italian, Austrian, Spanish and maybe Hungarian maybe he could.
Rollocks! Sometimes being a Brit is so damned inconvenient.

Yeah, oppressing half the planet and murdering them in their hundreds of thousands when they resisted doesn't count. Somehow.

J_Nostin

Arklight wrote: »

Yeah, oppressing half the planet and murdering them in their hundreds of thousands when they resisted doesn't count. Somehow.

I know the EU is desperate to expand but I didn't know they'd gone that far . . . yet! :rotfl: