Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

Tromking

Kohoutek wrote: »

That's very easy to say when you're a middle aged public sector worker with a gold plated pension....

Not so much gold plated, as part of my salary payable on retirement.
Plenty of those pensions still available to those willing to work in the most violent workplaces in Western Europe.

NB. Another weekend, another riot at HMP Bedford.

Thrugelmir

BobQ wrote: »

What a pity then that a misguided desire to be better than we already are should end in another recession, many people losing their jobs, an economy undermined by a continual move of UK based industry to the EU, a break up of the UK and a diminishing of our nation in the eyes of the world.

Pragmatism is what democracy is all about by for example recognizing that leaving can be achieved without impoverishing the nation.

Sorry but the move to Asia, in particular China started in the early 90's. Europe is suffering a similar fate. Europe as a whole is now predominantly service industry based.

Thank the EU for building the infrastructure and providing the funding that makes investment in Eastern Europe viable for major corporations.

BMW switched production of some models out of Germany years ago. Dog eats dog at the end of the day. National interests come first. The term EU is to broad a generalisation.

SouthLondonUser

@Zxcv Bnm, you said there is no shadow cabinet in Europe. I pointed out that many Western democracies do not have a shadow cabinet, but this doesn't make them any less democratic. Your reply was:

Zxcv_Bnm wrote: »

it makes them one party states. you want the EU to be a one party state

You have since kept quiet on this point. The way I see it, you have 3 options:

1. Continue to keep quiet and ignore the huge nonsense you said
2. Retract; admit it was a brain fart, and apologise
3. Explain why the lack of a shadow cabinet makes Germany Italy France Spain etc etc "one party states".

The deafening silence from other Brexiters is also very interesting: are you not compelled to call out total nonsense when said by one of yours?

SouthLondonUser

kabayiri wrote: »

Indeed. It's an approach a radio pundit like James O Brien uses a lot.

I think the intention is to guilt trip people into changing their mind, but it is a risky strategy.

Please explain what the correct approach should be when someone says something which is factually false and totally nonsensical. For example, there's a brilliant legal scholar here who said that the EU and all the countries which lack the very anglo-saxon concept of an explicit shadow cabinet are, for this very reason, "one party states". Please, please explain what the correct approach would be to point out the fallacy in this argument without sounding patronising or insulting. Or, of course, if the lack of a shadow cabinet makes them one party states, please explain why.

SouthLondonUser

Tromking wrote: »

Some much of the Remain case for staying is based on pragmatism, I don’t think peope like yourself will ever understand that for many Leave voters this was an aspirational thing, a desire to be better than we already are.

I don't think many people question the intention - I certainly don't. Sadly, that's totally, completely and utterly irrelevant. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
What matters is how correct it is that the country will be "better", whatever this means.


The NHS bus thing? Totally false.


The having cake and eating it? The holding all the cards? IMHO, totally false - where have seen any evidence of that in the negotiations?


All the questions about what happens in case of a no-trade deal? Still unanswered. Remainers cannot voice their concerns because, you know, project Fear etc etc, but Brexiters have still to explain what they think would happen and why. No, I take that back, one Brexiter at least, Boris, has said very clearly he doesn't care (F* business, remember?)


There's a very interesting video debate with James Delingpole, recorded a few weeks ago,
https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/james-dellingpole-rinsed-after-stuttering-through-bbc-interview-talking-brexit-1-5866045

where he admits clear ignorance. When he's asked what would happen to the ca. 50% of lamb that we export to the EU (no tariffs no, high tariffs under a WTO-no-deal scenario), his reply was something along the lines of "I'm sure we'll find a way out". Ok, he may not be an expert in food commerce, but is there a single Brexiter who is and who can answer this question?

phillw

Masomnia wrote: »

but I do think our history has resulted in us having a different psyche from our continental cousins.

Right, we're more likely to be led like sheep to the slaughter by Rees Mogg and his dad while believing that everything will be ok.

Tromking wrote: »

I don’t think peope like yourself will ever understand that for many Leave voters this was an aspirational thing, a desire to be better than we already are.

No, we understand that was some peoples motivations. It's just a pity that it will have the opposite effect for those people & there is even less sympathy for them now. I don't think they will ever understand.

cogito

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Italy was an unstable democracy with a basket case economy and a banana republic currency long before it joined the EU.

They've had what, 60 or 70 governments in the last 50 years?

EU membership isn't the cause of Italy's problems.

Maybe not but membership of the Eurozone most certainly is one of them.

cogito

phillw wrote: »

Right, we're more likely to be led like sheep to the slaughter by Rees Mogg and his dad while believing that everything will be ok.

How does that work? His dad died years ago.

cogito

SouthLondonUser wrote: »

The deafening silence from other Brexiters is also very interesting: are you not compelled to call out total nonsense when said by one of yours?

That's because we're too busy calling out the total nonsense said by remainers.

But, to be fair, it's hard to disagree with you.

Herzlos

Matt_L wrote: »

There will always be, winners and losers, life goes on and we adapt....

Yeah most of us will get through this, but since life is already hard why go out of our way to make it worse? If there was any upside on the horizon it'd be something people could swallow.