Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

silverwhistle

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

I always knew you were anti-UK, but trying to destroy my country will not work.

It's a very very long time since I did my Modern History and Politics degree, but the language I've quoted is very much of the sort used by authoritarian regimes.

Mr Johnson has surrounded himself with sycophantic nonentities who are all of a mind about Brexit, so I have no idea how he's going to unite the country.

Not wanting to join him in his own sycophantic behaviour towards Trump may well unite us, but at the moment one can only laugh bitterly at the slogan 'taking back control'.

adindas

silverwhistle wrote: »

adindas, we don't have a written constitution. You will also find that countries who make considerable use of referenda such as Switzerland have rules about the phrasing of the questions and have even invalidated a referendum because the voters were not in full possession of the facts. .

Any quotation where you could prove I ever said that ??
Australia is just one example of a country where the consitution could be changed by a referendum.

In the UK referendum is not legally binding but it has been ratified in the parliament with am overwhelming majority.

silverwhistle wrote: »

Nobody voted for a no deal referendum, the whole campaign was built on lies (Cambridge Analytica anyone?). Now we have an immoral, adulterous, incompetent and lazy liar as our prime minister backed by some of the most extreme right wing politicians out there. It's not going to end well.

[FONT=&quot]Utter tosh[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]A referendum is always be a binary option. You either vote to leave or to remain. Leave win remoners remoaners still do not want to accept the result.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]There is no such kind of hard Brexit or soft Brexit during the campaign. This term only comes after the remoaners become a double loser in the referendum and vote in the parliament [/FONT]

adindas

Jacob Rees Mogg HUMILIATES Gauke & Hammond over resignations

https://unitynewsnetwork.co.uk/jacob-rees-mogg-humiliates-gauke-hammond-over-resignations/

Philip Hammond David Gauke, Olly Robin all of them are the architecs of TM Botched deal.

https://unitynewsnetwork.co.uk/olly-robins-ousted-from-key-role-in-brexit-negotiations/

"Controversial civil servant Olly Robbins’ exit was announced during a Tory leadership hustings and the The audience erupted with cheers. "

Resignation is an hounorable thing but not if you already know that you will be sacked anyway.

JIL

adindas wrote: »

Jacob Rees Mogg HUMILIATES Gauke & Hammond over resignations

https://unitynewsnetwork.co.uk/jacob-rees-mogg-humiliates-gauke-hammond-over-resignations/

Philip Hammond David Gauke, Olly Robin all of them are the architecs of TM Botched deal.

https://unitynewsnetwork.co.uk/olly-robins-ousted-from-key-role-in-brexit-negotiations/

"Controversial civil servant Olly Robbins’ exit was announced during a Tory leadership hustings and the The audience erupted with cheers. "

Resign is an hounorable act but not if you already now that you will be sacked.

Rantings of a beano character does not a humiliation make.

SouthLondonUser

adindas wrote: »

Australia is just one example of a country where the consitution could be changed by a referendum.

So when you said that in some countries the referendum is higher than the constitution you meant that in some countries the constitution can be changed by a referendum? Is that all you meant? Or did you mean something else? If that's all you meant, well... so what? I don't get what the relevance is.

adindas wrote: »

[FONT=&quot]A referendum is always be a binary option. You either vote to leave or to remain.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Is choosing between staying home and going out, without knowing where, a real binary option? Is each option clear?
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Your insistence in refusing to admit that the referendum was never a binary choice is beyond shocking.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Or do you think that every single person who voted leave would be happy with a no-deal hard Brexit?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Can you please answer the question?[/FONT]

SouthLondonUser

Zuzel wrote: »

Here's a map for you of seats now held by The Brexit Party;

Where did you get this map?
The map on wikipedia is quite different:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_European_Parliament_election_in_the_United_Kingdom


Look at the share of the votes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_European_Parliament_election_in_the_United_Kingdom#Results
Brexit party 30.5%
UKIP 3.2%
Tories 8.8% (and not all Tories are leavers, plus not all the Tories who are want a no deal)


Is Farage's result huge? Yes, of course. Does it mean that the majority of the country wants a hard Brexit? Not necessarily. In fact, if you want to use the EU elections as a proxy for a 2nd referendum, it's not even clear that Leave would still win.


Lib Dems + Green together won 31.4% of the votes, i.e. more than Brexit and UKIP. Add the SNP and Plaid Cymru and you get to 35.5% of the votes won by 4 parties which are clearly pro-remain.


If we were to have a general election now, the distortions of FPTP might even mean that Farage might win > 50% of the seats with 30ish% of the votes.
But if we want to use those results as a proxy for a 2nd referendum no, the result is not clear at all.

gfplux

Moe_The_Bartender wrote: »

What democratic right is that? Don't you live in Luxembourg?

And your point is?

gfplux

adindas wrote: »

I think the arch remoaners try shifting the issue.

In your own negotiation if the option is to leave without a deal or to have a deal that will suck your blood for the rest of your life and leave you with humiliation, which one you choose ?? In the past there were a few examples where countries prepared to go war for this reason alone, let alone just brexit which only have a short term impact (not a long term).

I know what to choose, any reasonable person know what to choose.

And an Arch Quitlings back to you.
What is it with Brexiters and name calling. Don’t damage your argument by using silly offensive names.

gfplux

The majority of Brexiters are convinced the Withdrawal agreement/Transition/political understanding deal is a bad deal.
Therefore Johnson is applauded when he says a no deal is better than a bad deal.

However what about the other side.

What for the EU makes a no deal better than a bad deal?
I suggest giving in to Britain who are leaving by throwing ROI under a bus would make it a bad deal.

I suspect letting Britain leave with no deal is becoming the least of all evils for the EU.

I now feel that Britain will leave at the end of October with no deal (as promised by Johnson in his “do or die” speech and now in front of number 10 “no ifs or buts’) as there just is not enough tweaking of the deal to satisfy a majority in the HOC.

BRACE for a very difficult run up to Christmas. Stock up and don’t book any holiday travel.
However just as has been said before in another context and often referenced by Brexiters

“It will all be over by Christmas”

Moby

gfplux wrote: »

The majority of Brexiters are convinced the Withdrawal agreement/Transition/political understanding deal is a bad deal.
Therefore Johnson is applauded when he says a no deal is better than a bad deal.

However what about the other side.

What for the EU makes a no deal better than a bad deal?
I suggest giving in to Britain who are leaving by throwing ROI under a bus would make it a bad deal.

I suspect letting Britain leave with no deal is becoming the least of all evils for the EU.

I now feel that Britain will leave at the end of October with no deal (as promised by Johnson in his “do or die” speech and now in front of number 10 “no ifs or buts’) as there just is not enough tweaking of the deal to satisfy a majority in the HOC.

BRACE for a very difficult run up to Christmas. Stock up and don’t book any holiday travel.
However just as has been said before in another context.
“It will all be over by Christmas”

Johnson has certainly appointed a cabinet of brexit zealots, apart from Rudd and has painted himself into a corner. I can only see two scenarios really, either a no deal exit or (unlikely now) parliament finds a way of blocking it. Either way we are heading for an election and his new cabinet will be campaigning from the off. He is making huge promises about all sorts of stuff apart from brexit. I reckon his calculation will be to have the election before the effects of crashing out are felt and his promises are seen to be unicorns. With Labour in a mess and split he'd have a good chance of winning as well.