Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

SouthLondonUser

Adindas, you have not answered my questions on the border at all. What a surprise.

adindas

SouthLondonUser wrote: »

Adindas, you have not answered my questions on the border at all. What a surprise.

The Irish hard border is the EU problem rather than the UK problem. State clearly loudly, UK do not want any barrier if EU want to put the barrier let them do it.

From the beginning Irish border is very simple to be solved, UK do not even need to think a second.

The Ireland has now published a new document about the Irish hard border because the EU and Ireland are getting scared now.

Why they did not do (Ireland own published document border) that from the beginning under Teresa May. They know that time has come they will not be so lucky this time. Keep in mind Ireland could veto the EU final agreement. Did you see the reaction of Donald Tusk, he even used the word "Hell"

EU want to make the Irish border as an issue because they want to keep UK as a cash cow and subservient of the EU under ECJ. Let the EU and Ireland working harder to find solution for the problem they have created by themselves.

SouthLondonUser

That's a copy and paste from your previous messages. I repeat : how would the UK levy VAT tariffs etc without border checks? How would it ensure compliance with regulatory standards which will be different between the EU and the UK?

Can I have an answer?

adindas

SouthLondonUser wrote: »

That's a copy and paste from your previous messages. I repeat : how would the UK levy VAT tariffs etc without border checks? How would it ensure compliance with regulatory standards which will be different between the EU and the UK?

Can I have an answer?

Well, not all were copied and paste. I added some new content.

The Irish hard border is the EU problem rather than the UK problem.

Not put all checking in the border is one of the solution. If there is a problem for the UK put that question on the EU to solve it not UK.

From the beginning Irish border is very simple to be solved, UK do not even need to think a second.

If the EU and Ireland insist on hard border is the only solution then "go for it ".

Negotiation is about the power and mind game. The problem with TM and Olly Robin is that they gave up all the power from the beginning. It start from negotiation order, why agree to the negotiation order rather than just say, there was no negotiation order. No one agree to have a negotiation order that give the other opponent an edge. You do not do it in your own negotiation, noonene sensible will ever agree to it.

The Ireland has now published a new document about resolving the hard border by not doing all of the checking on the border because the EU and Ireland are getting scared now.

Why they did not do that (Ireland own published document about hard border) from the beginning under Teresa May. They know that time has come they will not be so lucky this time. Keep in mind Ireland could veto the EU final agreement. Did you see the reaction of Donald Tusk, he even used the word "Hell"

EU makes the Irish border as an issue because they want to keep UK as a cash cow and subservient of the EU under ECJ. Let the EU and Ireland working harder to find solution for the problem they have created by themselves.

Takedap

SouthLondonUser wrote: »

Adindas, you have not answered my questions on the border at all. What a surprise.

It appears that the solution is sticking your fingers in your ears & going "La La La"


Taking back control of our borders means ignoring difficult problems & passing them on to someone else.


If the Irish don't want a border & we don't want a border, lets just let everything across with no checks. No tax paid, no regulations enforced, no immigration checks, no idea of who or what is passing back & forth. What could possibly go wrong?

SpiderLegs

adindas wrote: »

The Irish hard border is the EU problem rather than the UK problem.

Posting this is just as ridiculous as the opposite view regularly trotted out that it’s purely the UK’s problem to sort.

Both sides have to find an agreement to avoid a hard border. The EU requires a solution to protect their external border just the same as we do. TMs garbage backstop plan is not that solution.

So it’s one of - back round the table, an inefficient fudge for both sides (like Eire have been talking about this week) or a hard border.

Fran_Klee

SouthLondonUser wrote: »

That's a copy and paste from your previous messages. I repeat : how would the UK levy VAT tariffs etc without border checks? How would it ensure compliance with regulatory standards which will be different between the EU and the UK?

Can I have an answer?

I've seen it answered many times before & I can't understand why you refuse the answer so here's the relevant bit from FullFact in case you somehow just missed it:

These checks could be fairly light touch. Because Sweden is in the EU and Norway is not, there are customs checks between those two countries.

They are spot checks, though, and don’t involve the checking of all vehicles.

Vans and lorries carrying imports could be told to attend a customs depot, which needn’t be at the border, with spot checks of commercial vehicles near the border as a deterrent against evasion. It might also be possible to use technology to reduce or eliminate the burden of physical checks.

https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-referendum-and-irish-border/

The ones who seem to think "that the solution is sticking your fingers in your ears & going "La La La" " are those who refuse to accept that there are solutions.
Valid ones.
Perhaps these people would care to explain why they refuse to accept that there are solutions?

BTW it might help if you understand that much in the way of customs already works this way - i.e. is not checked at any border.

SouthLondonUser

Norway is in the EEA. The UK won't be (unless Boris does a massive u-turn).
I am no expert, but doesn't this mean there is a lot more alignment between Norway and the EU than there will be between the EU and the UK? Food safety standards, regulations etc etc?

Do you know of a more comparable example?

Also, not all checks are done at the border. But then how do you ensure that lorries don't just offload part of their cargo between the border and the border checks? Genuine question, I am not saying there is no solution, I'm saying I don't know

Fran_Klee

At this stage it's impossible to know how much alignment there will be in the future between the UK and the EU - trying to speculate is nothing more than guessing but what we already know is that as a current full member we are fully aligned already.
Are you suggesting that this alignment will disappear overnight maybe?
That all the regulations imposed over the course of decades of membership will suddenly just cease to exist here in the UK?
That's an extremely unlikely scenario, you must admit.

A comparable example? Why; one is unnecessary. Trade flows globally and has done for centuries, most frequently without any problem.
Which leads to this thought: countries generally don't buy and sell things, people and companies in countries do.
If your country suddenly makes it difficult to buy and sell from one particular area either the difficulties are worked-around or alternatives are sourced, and this as you must surely realise works in both directions.
North Korea and Iran (for just a few examples) haven't disappeared despite the most severe restrictions being placed on them.


Regarding your last paragraph might I politely suggest that you acquaint yourself with the TIR system as one example of how compliance works in practice.




All this though is of little real relevance to the EU-contrived so-called "problem" with a future UK/Ireland border.
It is patently obvious that the EU are more far determined to extract their pound of flesh from a major contributing country daring to leave their beloved vision of utopia than they are of achieving any sort of compromise which would actually benefit millions of their citizens either in Ireland or on the mainland EU.

Nowhere does the GFA say a hard border wouldn't be allowed.
Border gun towers, troop baracks etc are a different thing.

adindas

SpiderLegs wrote: »

Posting this is just as ridiculous as the opposite view regularly trotted out that it’s purely the UK’s problem to sort.

Both sides have to find an agreement to avoid a hard border. The EU requires a solution to protect their external border just the same as we do. TMs garbage backstop plan is not that solution.

So it’s one of - back round the table, an inefficient fudge for both sides (like Eire have been talking about this week) or a hard border.

The EU propose to keep NI separate from the rest of the UK. Has anyone rational ever agreed to that term ??. Thankfully even the worst negotiator, the worst PM does not agree with that term.

But everyone have witnessed it has fired them back.