Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

BobQ

cogito wrote: »

I repeat. When we’re we allowed a vote to join the EU?

As a remainer, it would appear that you don’t have a clue about the difference between the EEC and the EU.

My responses to others would indicate that I do. And whatever side of the present argument you are on you just need to understand history.

Enterprise 1701D has already answered the question, I did not see the need to add to it.

As I have posted Mrs Thatcher negotiated our transition to the EU based on the mandate she got in 1987 GE. Major signed the Maastrict Treaty based on that mandate.

If you are asking me to say that there was no referendum over the Maastrict Treaty, that is self-evident. This was a decision taken by a majority Conservative administration.

Cakeguts

Herzlos wrote: »

The 97% eat humble pie and our offspring don't endure a destroyed planet.



So what's your basis for thinking all of the 97% are wrong? What do you know that they don't?

But really, even if they are wrong, what's the problem with looking after the environment? It's nice to walk down the street without choking on fumes, or going to the beach without raw sewage being piped into the sea? Looking after the environment is literally win-win.

I have absolutely no problem with looking after the environment. What I have a major problem with is being told what to think. Especially when I am being told to what to think about someone else's opinion.



I work on the basis that everyone is entitled to have their own opinion about anything that is said by anyone else and that no opinion is any more valid than any other. However since the start of 2019 I have been repeatedly told what to think about people who voted Brexit and I have been repeatedly told what to think about climate change snowflakes as if what I think is less important than the people who know that they have got everything right based only on what someone told them.



I wouldn't mind if I was being told by someone who knew what they were actually talking about but usually it is just down to the modern form of Chinese whispers usually someone who saw it on social media. Then they tell me what to think about something that they have seen on social media.



I basically don't want people to tell me what to think about anything. I can make up my own mind just as they wanted to do with theirs but are trying to deny me that right.



This has got significantly worse since the beginning of 2019 in the run up to Brexit and the tantrums of the snowflakes who lie down in roads.



We are now entering the age of "nuclear free zones" but now replaced by "climate emergency" the result will be exactly the same. Nothing. But along the way it will cost all of us more money for nothing. Tax payers paid for the nuclear free zone signs but unfortunately the nuclear dust from Chernobyl ignored the signs.



I do wish people would allow other people to think for themselves and not dictate to them all the time.

BobQ

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

The politicians may have known where the eec was going, especially the eec at the time, but they did not inform the general populace of this, they chose to keep it quiet in the hope that by the time people realised what was happening it would be too late.

Wilson sold us out by not actually informing us of what would happen if we remained in the eec. A trading bloc was fine, but they didn't say it was going to be a political bloc.

There was a No Leaflet issued to every household that raised the question of sovereignty It was addressed in 1973

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUdkidgI9kE.

In those days people did rely more on the press than the internet and the press was mostly remain, but I recall soverignty was an issue in the referendum.

BobQ

Herzlos wrote: »

How will public services be worse off in the EU than outside?

Services are funded by taxation, tax revenue will fall as the economy declines after Brexit.

Arklight

Cakeguts wrote: »

I have absolutely no problem with looking after the environment. What I have a major problem with is being told what to think. .

It's ok you can get one of these and then the exo-brainwaves can't get in.

buglawton

BobQ wrote: »

It is true that we have built up corporate and personal debt in recent years but that had nothing to do with the EU. The US were not members of the EU but built up high levels of debt.

Overall, 40 years of EU/EEC membership has built a more prosperous economy even allowing for the austerity many nations have experienced..

Brexit has undermined the value of the GBP and will in the short term make us poorer. It is self inflicted damage.

But of course once we are out of the EU other factors will come into play including uncertain supply chains and the impact of structural economic change, such as the wiping out of many UK industries. These can work in our favour or to our detriment.

But I agree that we will not be able to blame the EU for all and everything that goes wrong and the damage done by Brexit will fade.

Or... a more realistic £ has helped to rebalance employment, when the send-home pay for Eastern Europeans has made the UK less attractive

There were an estimated 29.10 million UK nationals working in the UK, 372,000 more than for a year earlier.

There were an estimated 2.27 million EU nationals working in the UK, 61,000 fewer than for a year earlier.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/articles/ukandnonukpeopleinthelabourmarket/february2019

...may the benefits of the Brexit trend continue

Enterprise_1701C

Arklight wrote: »

The Europeans want European Unity because it has stopped the endless wars that plagued Europe for centuries. You might not want that but if you want the benefits of that (no wars,a prosperous stable and democratic trading bloc on our doorstep), then to some extent you have to accept the fact that the UK is a minority member.

They have given us huge opt outs over much of the European project we didn't want to be in, but apparently this isn't enough.

It was not the eu that stopped the wars, it was the fact that Germany weren't allowed a proper army for ages. Yes, the eu has helped, but the UN is what has prevented was these last few years.

melanzana wrote: »

No it didn't stop at all, what are you smoking . Can you not nip over and back now if you wish?

Freedom of movement involves those moving to WORK or those in a position to support themselves outside of social supports. There is a three month rule out there that states you can be deported under Free Movement if you cannot support yourself and your family within that time.

But UK chose not to impose that on EU migrants under FM. So where does the blame lie?

You have to have a full passport to nip over now, what we used to use were documents that were effectively passports that lasted a day.

But then, I would guess you can't remember the days before we were in the eu.

Takedap

Cakeguts wrote: »

I work on the basis that everyone is entitled to have their own opinion about anything that is said by anyone else and that no opinion is any more valid than any other.

Everybody may be entitled to have an opinion but it is insanity to say that all opinions are equal.



But that's just my opinion.....

Enterprise_1701C

Takedap wrote: »

Everybody may be entitled to have an opinion but it is insanity to say that all opinions are equal.



But that's just my opinion.....

Of course all opinions are equal, one of the definitions of opinion is "a view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge."

Of course we all consider our opinion to be better than that of those around us.

It is the way that opinions are acted upon that is the important part.

Myself, I laughed when one of the climate change protestors said she would not be having children until climate change was stopped. It will not be stopped, climate change is natural, or are you going to blame us for the end of the last proper ice age? We may have slightly accelerated climate change, but that is the limit, and we would be betraying the earth if we stopped climate change.

Oh, and all these ones saying save the Earth - it is not the Earth that is affected by climate change, but then "save the humans" does not have quite the same ring to it.

We can't stop volcanoes, we can't stop animals emitting co2 and methane. If Greta wants to create real change she should be talking to China and India, that sort of area, but of course she would never do that because it would be difficult.

LHW99

Oh, and all these ones saying save the Earth - it is not the Earth that is affected by climate change, but then "save the humans" does not have quite the same ring to it.

I have heard some activists worry that if we don't do something the human race will become extinct - I can't help feeling that might solve the problem!