Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

Cakeguts

There seems to be a growing problem in the UK at the moment with some people telling others how to think about certain things. I have recently had a huge problem with well meaning people telling me how to think about climate change and how to think about the people who lie down in the middle of main roads and get themselves arrested. One person even suggest that this was a " family friendly" protest. I wouldn't call anyone getting arrested for breaking the law as a good role model for children.



If you voted Brexit then you clearly didn't know what you were voting for because the people who want to think for you and tell you what to vote for didn't respect your choice or opinion.



No one has the right to say that their opinion on any matter is more important than anyone elses. What I am seeing at the moment is that the people who believe in Remain somehow think that they are superior and their views and opinions are more important that those who chose to vote Leave. When challenged they say that the Leave voters didn't know what they were voting for once again indicating that they themselves are superior and only their opinions count. Climate change is going the same way.


I would be interested in how many climate change opinionated individuals also voted Remain because the mind set of both groups seems to be very similar.

Herzlos

I think the climate change / remain this is probably down to approaches to evidence, rather than smugness.



I'm also not sure many people didn't know what they were voting for, in the sense you're portraying. The problems is a lot of the things they voted for were based on confirmed lies (the politicians fault, not the voter), that different groups were voting for different things (like Indians voting for Brexit to bring in more Indian migrants, others voting Leave to get rid of Indians, others voting Leave because they don't like Brussels telling them what to do).



That the Leave campaign had no plan and no consensus should now be apparent. I'm all for pressing on with Brexit once anyone can agree on what it actually means.

Tromking wrote: »

What era of superstates, have I missed something?

I'm refer more here to large states. China, population 1420m. USA, population 329m. India, population 1368m. EU, population 550m. UK, population 67m. We're choosing to leave one of the largest trading blocs in the word to go it along, a veritable minnow among titans. What pressure can we exert on countries orders of magnitude bigger than us to give us favorable deals?


If the ascension of China is a concern, then surely we're better off tackling it as part of the EU rather than on our own?

The only issue for the UK at the moment is whether we uphold a democratic decision to leave a large trading bloc that has pretensions on becoming a supranational political entity in the not to distant future.

Yup, but it's a lot more nuanced; is it a good idea? Did the fraud affect the vote? Do people still feel that way? What do people actually want? It's not a simple, binary activity and the consequences are as severe as they could ever be.

You do, perhaps unwittingly bring up an interesting subject. This whole post-democratic Brexit era has uncovered a great deal of the populace who view the nation state as a tad passe and are seemingly seeing comfort in being led by a bunch of political appointees with little or no democratic accountability.

Which brings us back to the questions about why the UK is the right sized nation state, but not England or Cornwall?
What's wrong with an EU sized nation state and all the economies of scale that go with it?

Takedap

Cakeguts wrote: »

No one has the right to say that their opinion on any matter is more important than anyone elses.



All opinions ARE NOT equal. It is stupid to think otherwise.



What I am seeing at the moment is that the people who believe in Remain somehow think that they are superior and their views and opinions are more important that those who chose to vote Leave.


I don't think that is true. However, I do believe that Remainers think that their veiwpoint is more likely to be true as it are based on sources of information that are more reliable than those of Leavers. This is why Michael Gove attempted to discredit people by saying that "People in this country have had enough of experts"


I would be interested in how many climate change opinated individuals also voted Remain because the mind set of both groups seems to be very similar.
Yeah. Them bloody scientists with all their "research" & "studying".....what do they know. My mate in the pub sez...

I once knew a woman who went to a hypnotist & paid for a stop smoking session. Afterwards, she immediately went outside & lit up a cigarette saying "No man is going to tell me what to do"

Herzlos

BikingBud wrote: »

As I am certain there are many who would argue that we had a terrible 40 years. We have had multiple wars that wasted many lives and many billions of pounds or dollars depending upon which monetary unit you may wish to apply.

Did the EU drag us into any of those wars? I thought it was NATO, usually at the urging of the US?

movilogo

When challenged they say that the Leave voters didn't know what they were voting for once again indicating that they themselves are superior and only their opinions count.

Remain voters don't have a clue what remain means since 1975

kingstreet

Cakeguts wrote: »

I would be interested in how many climate change opinated individuals also voted Remain because the mind set of both groups seems to be very similar.

Funny you should mention that.

There appear to be lots of articles on the correlation/overlap between Brexit voters and climate-change deniers.

A venn diagram would be interesting.

Takedap

movilogo wrote: »

Remain voters don't have a clue what remain means since 1975

Expand please...

Cakeguts

You see I don't believe in man made climate change because of all the vested interests in it being man made. Follow the money.



There seems to be a correlation that I am seeing between people who live in the South East who voted Remain and people who lie down in the middle of busy road junctions. That same your opinion doesn't count runs through both.



If challenged you get the same kind of reaction on both subjects from the people who know better than you do and they try to tell you what to think. This seems to be a problem that is growing. It is a sort of entitlement to have all the answers and for everyone else to agree with them. I find it most odd. If you don't agree with them you get a the sort of tantrum lying down in the road that you would expect to get from a 3 year old.

Takedap

Cakeguts wrote: »

You see I don't believe in man made climate change because of all the vested interests in it being man made. Follow the money.



There seems to be a correlation that I am seeing between people who live in the South East who voted Remain and people who lie down in the middle of busy road junctions. That same your opinion doesn't count runs through both.



If challenged you get the same kind of reaction on both subjects from the people who know better than you do and they try to tell you what to think. This seems to be a problem that is growing. It is a sort of entitlement to have all the answers and for everyone else to agree with them. I find it most odd. If you don't agree with them you get a the sort of tantrum lying down in the road that you would expect to get from a 3 year old.

The thing about science is that it doesn't "care" whether you believe in it or not. Things still happen. If you want to debunk a scientific argument, then you have to do it with another scientific argument. You can't just say "I don't believe it because somebody might be making money out of it.


The whole point of the scientific method is that there are no secrets. It is all put up for peer review by other scientists. Your sources, findings, methods etc are all published. If you find it odd that most of the research results in data is in agreement then maybe that says more about you than it does about the science.


If you have a better scientific theory regarding global climate models then feel free to publish it. It will then be subjected to the same level of analysis & criticism as any of the other available studies.

ukcarper

Cakeguts wrote: »

You see I don't believe in man made climate change because of all the vested interests in it being man made. Follow the money.



There seems to be a correlation that I am seeing between people who live in the South East who voted Remain and people who lie down in the middle of busy road junctions. That same your opinion doesn't count runs through both.



If challenged you get the same kind of reaction on both subjects from the people who know better than you do and they try to tell you what to think. This seems to be a problem that is growing. It is a sort of entitlement to have all the answers and for everyone else to agree with them. I find it most odd. If you don't agree with them you get a the sort of tantrum lying down in the road that you would expect to get from a 3 year old.

Interestingly U.K.s per Capita co2 emissions are lower than majority of EU countries and significantly lower than Germany's