Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

wunferall

While the staunch pro-EU supporters ridicule Farage, they ignore the realities across their beloved EU with scenes like this yesterday from Paris:

And this yesterday from Spain:


They seem to want the same here.
:mad:

melanzana

wunferall wrote: »

While the staunch pro-EU supporters ridicule Farage, they ignore the realities across their beloved EU with scenes like this yesterday from Paris:

And this yesterday from Spain:


They seem to want the same here.
:mad:

Free speech. Not much traction. There is a tradition of marching and protest in France and Spain etc. But hey, we will all fit such reports into our own narrative.

Protest is good. Don't see much here though. Lambs to the slaughter more like, driven to the abbattoir by our incompetent, squabbling, childish Government and Parliament.

The laughing stock of Europe if not the World at this stage. But hey ho, must keep up with the Empirical Colonial hubris.

BobQ

wunferall wrote: »

At least you agree that you got what they promised.
I'm still waiting for the recession, the emergency budget, the millions of jobs lost and the war that the remain campaign threatened us with.

The Chancellor has billions to spend. If we decide to leave without a deal, that will be spent on emergency measures rather than useful support to the economy. There will be an emergency budget very soon if this happens.

Job losses are happening now, some are foreshadowed by the continuing uncertainty and some will happen in the coming year. You seem to be looking for an event of sometimes. Right now we have a slow puncture but if it continues a flat will be the result.

BobQ

I notice that May has been in the press trying to browbeat her troops to vote for the deal

Chancellor never denied on BBC this morning that he was going to consider improvements to the NI settlement (another inducement for DUP to sell their principles?)

Now May appeals to loyalty and patriotism. Was it not Samuel Johnson who said that patriotism was the last refuge of a scoundrel?

melanzana

Surely there cannot be anyone who thinks the way this Brexit thing is going is absolutely fantastic for anyone.

I have no problem whatsoever with obliging the will of the people etc., but my issue is that the procedure has been a total disaster so far.

I cannot be alone in thinking this surely?

melanzana

BobQ wrote: »

I notice that May has been in the press trying to browbeat her troops to vote for the deal

Chancellor never denied on BBC this morning that he was going to consider improvements to the NI settlement (another inducement for DUP to sell their principles?)

Now May appeals to loyalty and patriotism. Was it not Samuel Johnson who said that patriotism was the last refuge of a scoundrel?

Correct indeed.

BobQ

wunferall wrote: »

If you're seriously interested, a quick Google tells you all you want to know.

From demanding that the UK agree to a "divorce bill" before even talking about trade, to demanding payment for alleged & unproven supposedly unpaid customs duty.
From France demanding a UK climate pledge to Spain's demands regarding Gibraltar.
From demanding the right to fish in UK waters post-Brexit to .... well, how about the Irish border?
From Junckers demanding the UK exit immediately following the referendum to making demands about citizens rights.

There's just the start of an answer; is that enough proof yet that I'm not trolling?
All are factual and these are just the tip of a very large iceberg which those that perhaps are trolling obviously prefer to disregard.

I am sure you are not trolling. After all your views are plausible even if I disagree with them. I like the iceberg analogy, me thinks that Capt May is steering straight for it.

I would argue that the UK has demonstrated a failure to negotiate properly by laying down so many immutable red lines and by demanding a backstop which has created more issues than the rest of the withdrawal agreement. Most people acting in good faith do not argue for a backstop and then demand it's modification.

Soon after the Referendum, I posted an opinion that the most sensible solution to honour the vote was a very simple two stage process. Firstly Leave the EU and join EFTA. Then remain in EFTA until we had a clear idea of what we really want. EFTA membership would be more effective than the transitional phase May has "negotiated" and would involve no backstop.

Of course such simple solutions were not acceptable to the ideological fanatics.

melanzana

BobQ wrote: »

I am sure you are not trolling. After all your views are plausible even if I disagree with them. I like the iceberg analogy, me thinks that Capt May is steering straight for it.

I would argue that the UK has demonstrated a failure to negotiate properly by laying down so many immutable red lines and by demanding a backstop which has created more issues than the rest of the withdrawal agreement. Most people acting in good faith do not argue for a backstop and then demand it's modification.

Soon after the Referendum, I posted an opinion that the most sensible solution to honour the vote was a very simple two stage process. Firstly Leave the EU and join EFTA. Then remain in EFTA until we had a clear idea of what we really want. EFTA membership would be more effective than the transitional phase May has "negotiated" and would involve no backstop.

Of course such simple solutions were not acceptable to the ideological fanatics.

Brexit has little to do with an intelligent approach IMV.

It was and is visceral. That does not make for good negotiation tactics at all.

UK really thought it could overpower the EU. It could not, and will not.

Choose to leave, fine, off you go. But the powers that be are STILL arguing about HOW to leave.

It is bizarre. But if it is any consolation, we are living through history now. What anyone did in the war is past history, this is current and will be part of the future history curriculum eventually. If it is not silenced that is.

smipsy

all fine and dandy if we ignore the fact that EFTA has Schengen which UK is against, and on top that countries in EFTA don't really want UK in, notably Norway.

melanzana

smipsy wrote: »

all fine and dandy if we ignore the fact that EFTA has Schengen which UK is against, and on top that countries in EFTA don't really want UK in, notably Norway.

Can't say I blame them TBH!