Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

smipsy

wunferall wrote: »

I wonder if somewhere there's an alternate universe because in this one the EU have done nothing but demand since .............. oh, forever.
Since you disbelieve real events, this is probably more suited:

https://www.suffolkgazette.com/news/brexit-suffolk-belgium/

you seem to know what you're talking about, so what are/were these never-ending demands since "forever"?

it's a genuine question, asked by others before as well, so I'm assuming you're able to answer as I don't think you're trolling.

many thanks

kingstreet

Arklight wrote: »

If ever the EU got a win this is it.

Criticised for failing to manage minnows like Latvia and stumbling over crises like Greece, they have basically crushed the Anglo-American Trojan horse on their doorstep.

If ever Dr Gaulle was proved right it was when the EU admitted the fickle, selfish, and perpetually whining United Kingdom within its borders. A country apparently peopled by voters frozen in 1946 whose only interest in the European project has ever been what benefits it can get for itself and what downsides it can foist on its neighbours.

Now in a mushroom cloud of hubris without a shot being fired the UK has imploded. Parliament won't leave with a deal, it wont leave without a deal. It wants an extension, but it doesn't know why. And the Tory government is incapable of proposing anything not focus tested by a cohort of red faced Mail readers.

Every prediction of disunity and collapse Brexiters predicted for the EU has been visited upon their own country a hundred fold.

I've missed a few episodes of the trials and tribulations of the MSE Tates & Campbells as I've been busy helping people on other boards, but chapeau well and truly doffed, sir.

wunferall

smipsy wrote: »

you seem to know what you're talking about, so what are/were these never-ending demands since "forever"?

it's a genuine question, asked by others before as well, so I'm assuming you're able to answer as I don't think you're trolling.

many thanks

If you're seriously interested, a quick Google tells you all you want to know.

From demanding that the UK agree to a "divorce bill" before even talking about trade, to demanding payment for alleged & unproven supposedly unpaid customs duty.
From France demanding a UK climate pledge to Spain's demands regarding Gibraltar.
From demanding the right to fish in UK waters post-Brexit to .... well, how about the Irish border?
From Junckers demanding the UK exit immediately following the referendum to making demands about citizens rights.

There's just the start of an answer; is that enough proof yet that I'm not trolling?
All are factual and these are just the tip of a very large iceberg which those that perhaps are trolling obviously prefer to disregard.

wunferall

This is one inevitable outcome for MP's disregarding the will of their electorate:

"... we can begin the process of selecting a new candidate to represent us at the next election or earlier if Mr Boles takes the honourable course and resigns his seat.

This is very disappointing for us all as once again we have been betrayed by our parliamentary representative ... "

https://news.sky.com/story/pro-eu-mp-nick-boles-resigns-from-local-conservative-party-over-brexit-11667069

Arklight

wunferall wrote: »

If you're seriously interested, a quick Google tells you all you want to know.

From demanding that the UK agree to a "divorce bill" before even talking about trade, to demanding payment for alleged & unproven supposedly unpaid customs duty.
From France demanding a UK climate pledge to Spain's demands regarding Gibraltar.
From demanding the right to fish in UK waters post-Brexit to .... well, how about the Irish border?
From Junckers demanding the UK exit immediately following the referendum to making demands about citizens rights.

There's just the start of an answer; is that enough proof yet that I'm not trolling?
All are factual and these are just the tip of a very large iceberg which those that perhaps are trolling obviously prefer to disregard.

You mean they decided to represent the interests of the 27 countries who were remaining in the Union rather than the 1 that was leaving? How odd.

I can see why you are upset, as this cunning negotiating tactic appears to be beyond the farthest capabilities of Britain's useless government and pointless self serving Brexit "leaders".

The next thing that will happen is they won't give us an extension to leave and will demand we actually go at the end of the month like we have spent two years saying we will.

mustiuc

Isn't funny that for the last 2.5 yrs (almost) everyone was saying "they need us more than we need them", the eurozone will collapse without us, we can get better deals with others and now they are going to BEG an extension.
I also noticed, since the last vote this week, this thread became silent. I think a lot of people went "goldfish". All their "arguments" and beliefs were destroyed in two days.
I read two articles today: one about government saying they will try to get more international students (up to 600k/yr by 2030) and this will be absolutely against people's will. More and more(young) immigrants to come. And second about a BRITISH nurse student receiving while she had a nap in a library a note saying "you took our jobs, brexit means brexit".
I mean, this word went mad... absolutely mad. I wad always wondering, as a nurse, if someone will need a first aid on the street or where I work, if he/she would like to "be saved/helped" by a immigrant. I always have this fear to walk on a street, something bad to happen and to need my help there. I woudnt know what to do. My mind will say no, my heart and profession will say yes.
Just think about

smipsy

wunferall wrote: »

If you're seriously interested, a quick Google tells you all you want to know.

From demanding that the UK agree to a "divorce bill" before even talking about trade, to demanding payment for alleged & unproven supposedly unpaid customs duty.
From France demanding a UK climate pledge to Spain's demands regarding Gibraltar.
From demanding the right to fish in UK waters post-Brexit to .... well, how about the Irish border?
From Junckers demanding the UK exit immediately following the referendum to making demands about citizens rights.

There's just the start of an answer; is that enough proof yet that I'm not trolling?
All are factual and these are just the tip of a very large iceberg which those that perhaps are trolling obviously prefer to disregard.

ah, i see. so not really unreasonable, incredibly evil demands, but negotiations. one might foolishly get a feeling that the poor little UK never demanded anything.

but i do understand that these negotiations were supposed to, in the mind of the people wanting to leave, essentially go along the ways of "exceptional and great britain demands anything and everything, and poor silly EU drops down on its knees and fulfils all the wishes"

well, going 100% as planned i see.

Enterprise_1701C

wunferall wrote: »

If you're seriously interested, a quick Google tells you all you want to know.

From demanding that the UK agree to a "divorce bill" before even talking about trade, to demanding payment for alleged & unproven supposedly unpaid customs duty.
From France demanding a UK climate pledge to Spain's demands regarding Gibraltar.
From demanding the right to fish in UK waters post-Brexit to .... well, how about the Irish border?
From Junckers demanding the UK exit immediately following the referendum to making demands about citizens rights.

There's just the start of an answer; is that enough proof yet that I'm not trolling?
All are factual and these are just the tip of a very large iceberg which those that perhaps are trolling obviously prefer to disregard.

As you say, that is the tip of the iceberg.

It has always been the case that the eu would make it as hard as possible for us to leave.

They went bonkers when we threatened to withdraw security cooperation, because we are the best in the field.

They do not believe in sticking to the rules when fishing in our waters, but they still want to fish in them after Brexit.

As for Gibraltar, Spain have frequently blockaded the border, and their boats actually ordered ours to leave "their" waters when they were docked in port. Even though the blockades started before the referendum the eu did absolutely nothing to stop them, even though at the time it would have been classed as an internal eu matter. Equally, I see the eu doing nothing about the frequent threats from Spanish boats within Gibraltarian waters.

As for the Irish border, I do not believe the eu would ever accept any solution we came up with, they are purely using it as a cosh to keep us in line. And it is working because of the figurehead of momentum is terrified of telling his party to do as HE wants them to do, which is leave the eu (and he has always been keen to leave because it is the only way he could do as he wishes if he ever got his hands on the country, even though if he got into power he would instantly be replaced by the rabid dog that is McDonnell).

So, the eu has never negotiated, in good will or otherwise. If they had wished to allow us to leave they would have negotiated the trade agreement at the same time as the divorce, which would have negated the need for the agreement on Ireland.

Can someone please tell me the logic of not agreeing a deal on the backstop, thereby preventing what it is designed to prevent rather than actually making it happen, unless the idea is to be totally intransigent WHATEVER the ideas we come up with and thereby force us into remaining?

DonJo_King

You don't start any negotiation by issuing demands.

If I wanted a divorce and went to see a solicitor who then demanded a signed agreement for payment upfront, adding that I would owe a fortune eventually with no guarantee of any good outcome I would walk and go elsewhere as, I'm sure, would anybody with any good sense.
The UK should have done just that, and this from me who voted to remain.

Moby

mustiuc wrote: »

Isn't funny that for the last 2.5 yrs (almost) everyone was saying "they need us more than we need them", the eurozone will collapse without us, we can get better deals with others and now they are going to BEG an extension.
I also noticed, since the last vote this week, this thread became silent. I think a lot of people went "goldfish". All their "arguments" and beliefs were destroyed in two days.
I read two articles today: one about government saying they will try to get more international students (up to 600k/yr by 2030) and this will be absolutely against people's will. More and more(young) immigrants to come. And second about a BRITISH nurse student receiving while she had a nap in a library a note saying "you took our jobs, brexit means brexit".
I mean, this word went mad... absolutely mad. I wad always wondering, as a nurse, if someone will need a first aid on the street or where I work, if he/she would like to "be saved/helped" by a immigrant. I always have this fear to walk on a street, something bad to happen and to need my help there. I woudnt know what to do. My mind will say no, my heart and profession will say yes.
Just think about

It looks like May's deal.....we'll be stuck in a backstop Customs Union for as long as it takes us to agree a trade agreement with the EU. So we're going to be accepting the EU's rules and regulations for as long as this new trade agreement takes to come about and will be paying into the EU and will have no say on how the money is spent:mad:. Realistically this new trade agreement could take many years! Anything could happen meantime.....France could make an issue of fishing......Spain could raise Gibraltar.....it's going to be a never ending nightmare!